Gore's solution to the Iraqi problem

Great Debates
21

Uh, not exactly true.

Still think Gore would have gone with “coercive sanctions,” or “treated Iraq like a minimal threat?” Still think the image of Iraq as a threat to the US is a result of a Bush con job?

Sorry for the hijack, but I never understand what people mean when they say this. Are you referring to the fact that Gore won more popular votes? If so, do you realize that’s not the same thing as winning the election, which is determined according to electoral college votes? I still haven’t seen a count that said Gore won enough electoral college votes to win the election. If you have one, a cite would be appreciated.

22

Actually, yeah, I do. The level of threat from Saddam wasn’t notably greater post-2000 than it was prior. (Note that I’m not saying Saddam wasn’t a threat that should’ve been dealt with prior to 2000, just that the threat didn’t really increase.) Clintonian policy was to pretty much ignore Saddam. I see no reason to believe Gore would’ve done anything to rock the boat. Sure, Gore can mouth off now from the safety of post-defeat irrelevance, but that says nothing about what he would’ve done if he’d been elected.
Jeff

23

Is it just me, or did that get shot down remarkably quickly?

24

Said ElJeffe

I’m afraid not. In fact, Clinton appears to have wholeheartedly adopted Bush the Elder’s plan to use the CIA to sponsor an overthrow of the Iraqi government.

In 1996, the CIA was nearing its goal of sponsoring a Kurdish uprising in Iraq when Hussein got wind of what was going on. He successfully bagged close to a hundred CIA-sponsored coup-plotters and rolled tanks into the Kurdish strongholds which were planning a guerrilla uprising.

Saddam Hussein simply moved too fast for the United States to react, and just like that most of the clandestinely nurtured support for the United States was wrecked.

But Bill Clinton didn’t fail to knock over Iraq for lack of trying. Bill was just the sort of guy who doesn’t pronounce the “b” in subtle, if you know what I mean.

25

I think Gore would have invaded Afghanistan like GWB and would have pushed more at the UN for better inspections, though I think he would have failed to get anything with teeth past the French and Russians just like GWB.

After that he would have made some token military gestures to save face and then blame the failures on a lack of support from a Republican congress.

And for absofrickenlutely certain the war protests would have been about 1/10th the size they are now.

-k

26

You know, say what you want about Mike Moore (I myself disagree with him a lot and think he is often guilty of attention whoring), but can anyone provide conclusive proof that he lied in his chapter about the 2000 election? Not where he confuses the popular vote and the electoral college (which I agree is stupid and tends to discredit anything else he has to say), but specifically, the part about how thousands of blacks in Florida were illegally denied the right to vote because they merely had the same name or something as a convicted felon? Or about how Fox News, which he claims is run by a Bush crony, was the first to declare that Bush won Florida?

27

The fact is, we have no idea what Al Gore would have done.

Pre-9/11, Gore was more of a hawk on Iraq than Bush was. Bush was the ‘isolationist’ who was skeptical of ‘nation-building’. Gore, on the other hand, was part of the Clinton Administration which adopted regime change in Iraq as its official policy.

After 9/11, Gore has made statements both agreeing with and criticizing the Bush Administration’s plan to topple Iraq. Bill Clinton has done the same. Hillary Clinton openly supports President Bush.

Joe Lieberman, who would have been Gore’s Vice President, is probably the biggest hawk on Iraq in the Democratic party.

Given all that, I believe that Gore would have done exactly what Bush did, and advocated the military overthrow of Saddam’s regime.

The question is whether he would have stuck with it in the face of U.N. opposition like Bush did.

Of course, you could also ask whether Gore would have even had the same amount of U.N. opposition that Bush had.

But either way, I believe it would have been the Gore Administration’s policy to seek an invasion of Iraq.

28

Please keep the “reasoning” here limited to known facts. The only people who still believe that are out of date on that, and simply regurgitating popular leftist rhetoric.
On a personal note, I did vote for Gore (Not a demcrat, just liked Gore better…), & was disheartened when he lost after all that tension, but the truth is that most of those “uncounted votes” were for Bush Jr anyway, so I don’t see how that would have helped.

Sam, you are peobably right, but we all have to keep in mind that a lot of Bush Jr’s ideology on Iraq is based on what those around him are up to (Powell, Rumsfeld, et al), more than anything else.
With Gore, we would likely have had a different bunch in charge there, so that of course confuses the issue further still…

29

Well, I believe we should …

[Six months later]

Maybe …

[Four weeks later]

Do …

[Three weeks later]

Something …

[Two weeks later]

… maybe …

30

First of all I am a life long Democrat who voted for Gore. He lost plan and simple. The way our electoral system is set up it has worked beautifully since its conception. We have popular vote and electoral vote to balance in case of an issue just like the one that evolved in the last presidential election.

To wine about this is beyond pathetic and the worst breach of gentlemanly manors. It makes me ashamed of some of those in my party and after the last presidential debockle and the the extensive behavior of Clinton almost wanting to change parties if I did not think I would be removed from the family will….

I voted for Gore and I have never been so glad he lost in all my life. I have never been a yellow dog democrat in the sense of just blindly voting for a straight party ticket. I have never agreed with everything any one politician has done even those in my own family (we have quite a few). I vote for the person not the party.

I voted against Hillary “I could not tell the truth if my life depended on it” Clinton for the senate (I was a registered voter in NY at the time of her run) and would not have voted for that women for dog catcher…

I do not agree with everything that Bush does (nafta, some budget issues etc…) however on the war issue I support him 100%…

All I have to say is thank god for Reagan, Bush Sr. and those baron senators such as Stennis (d-miss), who while chairman of Arms Service and Appropriations had the respect of his constituents on both sides of the fence and tacked down military contracts and money flow issues through 2012 that helped negate the Clinton administrations neglect of Arms Service even before they arose.

Stennis left the senate after 43 years of service starting with Truman in 47, at the end of the Reagan era. He wanted to make sure that even though he was not there to oversea his baby (the military) that she would have a trust fund to take care of her in case a custodian did not give her the attention she should always have for the defense of this country.

Of course that is why he is the only US Senator that has a Nemitz Class Nuclear Aircraft carrier named after him because he is the father of America’s modern navy (his favorite branch of the military)……

He was everything a statesmen should be. Low key, not boastful, never getting out in front of cameras unless he had to and watchful of all but very seldom criticizing those he disagreed with in public but hashing out the issues in the cloak room of a Senate as oppose to airing dirty laundry and making an ass out of ones self in public…(i.e Dashel)

Al Gores father would have been appalled at his son’s lackadaisical attitude. He was a fine statesmen who like Stennis had the utmost respect for what the strength and force of a mighty military presence meant to this country and without it we would not be the supper power we are today….

I raise my glass to those baron senators (Long, Russell, Stennis, Eastland, Gore Sr., Byrd, Thurman, Helms, Heflin, Goldwater to name a few) who insured that America remained the presence she should always be through her the size and strength of military….

Lets hope that those who sit in their seats in the future will see their wisdom and yet learn from their mistakes and use it to make this country even greater for our future generations instead of sitting around playing partisan politics for personal gain while it all pisses away ……

31

scm1001, meet Frank. 6’8, 350lbs of pure muscle and he loves to use em. He is a big boy, and he has convinced himself that you are doing some bad things. According to you, since he is big enough, he can do what he wants. Have fun together.

32

if scm1001 has been pulling the stuff Saddam has been pulling, I would like to welcome Frank to the team - the police don’t seem willing to do much about it.

Regards,
Shodan

33

If Gore had been elected, he would have had a tete-a-tete with Saddam and Chirac and convinced them both that the manufacture of weapons of mast destruction should cease. And on the economy he would have…

34

EPI, frank sounds just my sort of guy. Is he single?

35

Who?

36

Well, for one thing, I bet Gore would have prosecuted the war against al-Qaeda more vigorously instead of going after Iraq after the Afghanistan dust-up.

But basically, I don’t know what Gore would do, because Gore is very, very smart. Whereas Bush is kinda predictable. I just ask myself WWJD? What Would a Jackass Do?

37

We wouldn’t be at war now had my candidate won…

38

http://www.allsoulsnyc.org/publications/newsandopinion/what-would-jesus-do.htm

39

You avoid my point.

Might does not make right- School yard bullies don’t have free reign over the other kids, though they think they might.

Personally I am ashamed to live in a country that thinks it can do what it wants just because it is stronger than everybody else. I am also surprised and a bit disapointed that anybody on this message board would not recognize this fact. Especially one as apparently as intelligent as you appear to be.

The next time somebody steals your purse and or wallet I will just laugh at you and say- He was bigger than you, you deserved it. Anytime you get pushed around at work because you are smaller than that person, anytime you are out somewhere and some guy or woman that is bigger takes your parking spot, steps in front of you in line, or any other form of bulling and you bitch about it online here- I will remember this philosophy of yours. If you are big enough to enforce it, you have the right to do anything morally. Screw the little people.

40

I agree with the suggestion that 9/11 might not have happened had Gore been President. He might have paid more attention to whatever signs and hints may have been pointing toward a planned terrorist attack on the US. In which case it may have been possible to prevent the attack. And in the absence of that terrorist attack, would we now be at war with Iraq? It seems likely that we would not be. One reason Bush was able to go ahead with this war is that he has half the country believing that Saddam was behind 9/11 and therefore supporting the war.

OTOH, if Gore did want to attack Iraq, he would probably have gone about it more the way Bush Sr. did, rather than the way Bush Jr. has. He would talk to other heads of state personally, or send representatives to do so, and build a real coalition. And he would have sought UN approval. He would have gone ahead with the war only if he could accomplish these two things: a real coalition of developed nations & UN backing. Would he hve accomplished those things? I have no idea.

Why do I hold these opinions as to what Gore would have done? Because it’s my opinion that just about any President other than Bush Jr. would have acted as I’ve described a hypothetical President Gore acting.