# Gorilla shot to save young boy **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 30, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046 "2016-05-30T01:13:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/161 "2016-05-31T03:02:19Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > I am amazed at the responses in here defending the mother. . Nobody is defending the mother. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/162 "2016-05-31T03:13:23Z")
Little more to say here that belongs in this forum but I will contribute [this about reintroduction programs](https://www.aza.org/reintroduction-programs/) since the subject was brought up: > [@](#): > > Reintroduction programs, by which animals raised or rehabilitated in AZA-accredited zoos or aquariums are released into their natural habitats, are powerful tools used for stabilizing, re-establishing, or increasing in situ animal populations that have suffered significant declines. Reintroductions may include animals that have spent some of their early life-stages being cared for in a “head-start” program that gives them a greater chance of survival than those born in the wild, those brought in for rehabilitations from illness or injury, or those that are offspring of animals that have had several generations cared for by AZA-accredited institutions. Note that the only successful example listed of a predator being reintroduced has been the Red Wolf program and that these have never been zoo animals. More detail [here](http://www.pdza.org/red-wolf-conservation): > [@](#): > > The goal from the start of the breeding program has been to put the Red Wolf back into its natural habitat. Great care had to be taken to maintain the wolves’ natural instincts and minimize human contact. In general [reintroduction of predators has failed](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080123-carnivores-wild.html). > [@](#): > > Most large, captive-bred carnivores die if returned to their natural habitat … The study team looked at survival rates for 17 species of reintroduced mammals, including tigers, wolves, lynx, cheetahs, brown bears, and otters. > > More than half of the fatalities were attributed to human causes, such as vehicle collisions and deliberate shootings. > > Captive-born carnivores were also more likely to starve to death than their wild-bred counterparts, as well as become more susceptible to viruses and diseases, the study showed. The Black-footed ferret is a listed predator on that top list as a success since some have reproduced in the wild but as much [this article](http://blackfootedferret.org/reintroduction/) characterizes it as a success the reality remains that there have been approximately 4,500 ferrets released in the wild, 150-220 each year, and the result is a world wild population estimated as only 300. [This article](http://phys.org/news/2016-02-reintroduction-genetically-distinct-orangutan-subspecies.html) discusses the great caution that needs to be taken even for non-predators being reintroduced after being displaced. > [@](#): > > As their natural habitats continue to be destroyed, increasing numbers of displaced endangered mammals are taken to sanctuaries and rehabilitation centres worldwide. The ultimate goal of these centres is often reintroduction: to return these animals to wild populations. In a new study published today in Scientific Reports, however, Graham L Banes and Linda Vigilant of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, caution that such reintroductions can act as a form of genetic translocation. By using genetic analysis to assess a subset of historical reintroductions into Tanjung Puting National Park, Indonesia, they found that orang-utans from a non-native and genetically distinct subspecies were unwittingly released and have since hybridized with the Park’s wild population. As orang-utan subspecies are thought to have diverged around 176,000 years ago, with marked differentiation over the last 80,000 years, the researchers highlight the potential for negative effects on the viability of populations already under threat. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/163 "2016-05-31T03:22:34Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > Where exactly do you think they are going to get another gorilla? There aren’t many left. **Personally, I think any gorilla’s life is worth far more than any child’s life simply based on their relative rarity. Kids are a dime a dozen. Gorillas, not.** Oh. My. Lord. Are you serious? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/164 "2016-05-31T03:25:31Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Oh. My. Lord. Are you serious? :eek: She obviously hasn’t bought a child lately. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/165 "2016-05-31T03:30:28Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > She obviously hasn’t bought a child lately. Yeah, they cost a shit ton of bananas. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/166 "2016-05-31T03:53:58Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Don’t forget the [infinite monkey theorem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem). Yeah but it only takes one person to create the works of Shakespeare. Seems far more efficient than rounding up an infinite number of apes and typewriters… Especially since you have to check their work to figure out when they actually did it. ---
**Author:** ![Pylesos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc348/32.png) [@Pylesos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pylesos)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/167 "2016-05-31T04:17:56Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > **Pylesos** , even though you aren’t addressing another poster, you are out of bounds with this post. I’m sorry, you’re saying I was out of bounds calling the woman in question “fat” and “cunty”? A quick googling [reveals](http://heavy.com/news/2016/05/michelle-gregg-cincinnati-zoo-mother-mom-name-gorilla-harambe-facebook-photos-son-petition/) that she’s not just fat, she looks dangerously obese: about 5’4", and easily 350 lbs. The “cunty” part is more subjective, of course, but what other conclusion could you reach taking into account the statements she’s made: 1. It wasn’t her fault th kid climbed in, she was busy taking pictures. 2. Kid said that he wanted to go swim with the gorilla, still not her fault…she was busy. Unexpectedly :rolleyes: mom and dad have different last names. The media keeps referring to him as her husband :rolleyes: Equally shocking, the media mentions that another woman, who has kids with same dad (shocking again) felt bad for mom. Is posting factual information ( at least as far as calling this woman “fat”) against the rules of this forum? ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/168 "2016-05-31T04:32:51Z")
**Pylesos** , if you want to discuss the moderating decision, start an ATMB thread, although I think the part of my note that you didn’t quote should answer your question. At any rate, do not discuss it further in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/169 "2016-05-31T04:36:19Z")
I know this is a tangent but after watching some videos I am shocked at the sheer physicality, strength, and speed of gorillas. Intellectually of course I know this stuff but when you see videos like this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T0z1CT-nR8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T0z1CT-nR8) It totally blows my mind the power this animal really has, it almost doesn’t look real. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/170 "2016-05-31T04:57:38Z")
> [@Pylesos](#): > > Unexpectedly :rolleyes: mom and dad have different last names. The media keeps referring to him as her husband :rolleyes: Many married people have different last names. Welcome to 2016. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/171 "2016-05-31T05:10:30Z")
> [@StanielMarsh](#): > > When it was revealed that the kid is African-American, the social mobs are even less sympathetic it seems! > > The mother, Michelle Greggs, has released a statement on facebook. > > Some commenters suggested that SHE was the real gorilla and her son an ape-like cretin Before that was revealed, there was this [x.com](https://twitter.com/IsaIbnOfficial/status/736928842225324034) > [@](#): > > That gorilla was taken from it’s homeland, put in captivity, and then killed to preserve White life. That sounds familiar. > > ``` > — Isa Ibn (@IsaIbnOfficial) May 29, 2016 > > ``` And the gorilla was born in a Texas zoo. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/172 "2016-05-31T05:21:54Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > But you’re talking about a ZOO where the primary consideration is the welfare of the animals and safety of the visiting public. That’s exactly why the animals are in enclosures that are MEANT to protect both the animals from prying fingers, and the public from snapping crocs (for example). The fact that the child was in any way able to get into the gorilla enclosure makes it clear that the zoos security was flawed, regardless of what the parents did or didn’t do. > > TL/DR…the kid shouldn’t have been able to get into the gorilla enclosure: the zoo fucked up. 100% this and it is easy to see the posters who know of children only from books and documentaries. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/173 "2016-05-31T05:28:25Z")
> [@donkeyoatey](#): > > A woman walks into her room where her child lies sleeping, > and when she sees his eyes are closed, > she sits there, silently weeping, > and though she lives in Scranton, Pennsylvania > She never ever eats … Bananas > Not one of thirty thousand pounds … of bananas > [@bienville](#): > > There where it is we do not need the wall: > He is all gorilla and I am precocious toddler. > My four year old will never get across > And eat the bananas under his apes, I tell him. > He only says, “Good fences make for lower insurance premiums.” What is it with gorilla threads and limericks? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/174 "2016-05-31T05:32:56Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Or we’d be back to zoos with animals in tiny, abusive cages. Or the human paths would be entirely enclosed by Plexiglas, walls and ceiling, and zoo visitors would complain that zoos are _supposed_ to be about being _outside_. > > I’ve looked at some of the video news coverage. The kid had to 1. climb over a railing, 2. climb through a wire fence, 3. push his way through several feet of very dense bushes and underbrush (I suck at eyeballing distance, but I’d say at least 6-8 feet), 4. and fall down a sheer 20ish-foot drop to get into the enclosure. That’s “not enough” due diligence by the zoo? \*\*They should anticipate parents who leave their kids completely unattended for the solid half a minute or more it would take a small child to force their way through all those obstacles? > > I’m sorry, but if you have a rambunctious 4-year-old, you don’t turn your back on them for minutes at a time.\*\* Not in a store, not in a playground, and not in a zoo. There’s also something to be said for teaching a child that fences are not there to be circumvented in the first place; 4 years old is plenty old enough to understand that. > > I still expect that the parents assumed that the zoo was basically a giant daycare. (bolding mine) I’m entirely on board with what you’re saying - except for this part. There’s a huge difference between “minutes at a time” and “30 seconds or so” It would take as little as a 15 second distraction for the kid to get out of eyeball sight, and then find his way through the rest of the obstacles - And if you show me a parent who claims that they haven’t taken their eyes off of a four year old for even 30 seconds while they’re out somewhere and I’ll show you a liar. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/175 "2016-05-31T05:40:26Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Slightly off-topic: Have any of you toured the Everglades? I was shocked to see how up close and personal you are with the gators. > > In fact, I saw a mom strolling the path holding her toddler’s hand; the tyke was pulling, trying to release from her grip. A gator was just yards away. I prayed to the ogs that he not break free. > mmm Same with Yellowstone and those animals. Wild parks have wildlife. Sharks are at the beach. But it is a surprise to see how nonchalant some parents are at the national parks. It’s almost as if they don’t think those gators and crocodiles in the Everglades are real. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/176 "2016-05-31T05:43:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What is it with gorilla threads and limericks? Are you sure you know what a limerick is? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/177 "2016-05-31T05:59:30Z")
On viewing the video again, it seems that there was very little distance from where the visitors were able to view the gorillas (and where the vid was taken from) to the edge of the moat…maybe 3’ or so. That’s very little distance for the kid to cover in very few seconds. Nor did I see a fence (that may well have not been visible) but given the angle of the footage taken, if there was a fence it was a very low one, easily scaled by a nimble child. What has made me more curious is the moat itself. At the Melbourne Zoo in my hometown (and regarded internationally as being world-class) the moats are essentially ‘no-man’s land’ and not accessible by the animals unless they too accidentally fall in! Meant as a buffer to further protect the animals AND to prevent idiots being able to get into the enclosures, they make sure that no contact is possible…the only scenario where that could happen is if one of the primates fell into the moat at exactly the same time as some hero decided he wanted to take a selfie with them. So it seems that the moat at the Cincinnati Zoo was not a protective moat at all, but is actually part of the gorillas home environment. It truly amazes me that in 38 yrs, this is the first time the barrier has been breached to be honest. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![El\_DeLuxo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_deluxo/32/9043_2.png) [@El\_DeLuxo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_DeLuxo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/178 "2016-05-31T06:14:24Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > Reading this thread reminds me of the comment areas on news websites, where people generally demand the death penalty for anything more severe than jaywalking and any misbehavior by a person younger than 30 results in cries of “Arrest the parents too!” Those parents’ negligence (and the misbehavior of their offspring) were directly responsible for the needless destruction of a rare and valuable, irreplaceable, living creature. The kid won’t be punished --oh, perish the thought of any kid having to face consequences for its actions!–so the parents should be. It wouldn’t bring poor Harambe back, or truly compensate for his loss, but it’d be a sharp reprimand to the guilty parties in what’s probably the only language they understand. ` > [@](#): > > I have absolutely no doubt that there will be no criminal charges filed against the child’s mother, and the zoo will not seek pursue kind of civil action against her either. I’m sure you’re right, and it’s a goddamned shame. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/179 "2016-05-31T06:27:38Z")
> [@DLuxN8R-13](#): > > Those parents’ negligence (and the misbehavior of their offspring) were directly responsible for the needless destruction of a rare and valuable, irreplaceable, living creature. The kid won’t be punished --oh, perish the thought of any kid having to face consequences for its actions!–so the parents should be. It wouldn’t bring poor Harambe back, or truly compensate for his loss, but it’d be a sharp reprimand to the guilty parties in what’s probably the only language they understand. > ` > I’m sure you’re right, and it’s a goddamned shame. And what exactly would those charges be, or in other words, what crime has the mother committed? You seem so well versed in the law and stuff… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046/180 "2016-05-31T06:30:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > 100% this and it is easy to see the posters who know of children only from books and documentaries. They know as much about kids as they know about gorillas, or even the case in question. Or zoos. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gorilla-shot-to-save-young-boy/756046.md?page=10)