# gory fairy tales question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 5, 2002, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gory-fairy-tales-question/122364 "2002-08-05T02:13:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jaytini2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@jaytini2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaytini2)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gory-fairy-tales-question/122364/1 "2002-08-05T02:13:58Z")
i am reading the fables comic book right now, and it got me thinking about all of the “the original fairy tales by grimm and anderson were really gory” stories, and i was wondering if anyone could tell me some good books on the subject, as well as good books that tell the original stories? thanks ---
**Author:** ![whistlepig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/73ab20/32.png) [@whistlepig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whistlepig)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gory-fairy-tales-question/122364/2 "2002-08-05T02:29:46Z")
The Uses of Enhancement by Bruno Bettleheim (I think) Who should rot in hell, but not for that book. ---
**Author:** ![Morgainelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Morgainelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgainelf)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gory-fairy-tales-question/122364/3 "2002-08-05T17:39:27Z")
**Women Who Run With Wolves** by Clarissa Pinkola Estes is a fantastic book on the subject of archetypes in old fairy tales. It details many of the gorier stories, such as _The Red Shoes_, _Little Match Girl_, and _Blackbeard_. ---
**Author:** ![Morgainelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Morgainelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgainelf)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gory-fairy-tales-question/122364/4 "2002-08-05T17:45:44Z")
**Women Who Run With Wolves** by Clarissa Pinkola Estes is a fantastic book on the subject of archetypes in old fairy tales. It details many of the gorier stories, such as _The Red Shoes_, _Little Match Girl_, and _Bluebeard_. Here is a link to the table of contents: [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0345409876/reader/24/103-7894689-9260626#reader-link](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0345409876/reader/24/103-7894689-9260626#reader-link) ---
**Author:** ![Morgainelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Morgainelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgainelf)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gory-fairy-tales-question/122364/5 "2002-08-05T17:49:35Z")
Sorry, guess I didn’t catch it in time. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gory-fairy-tales-question/122364/6 "2002-08-05T20:14:17Z")
I picked up “Complete Works” of both (all three?) authors at Barnes & Noble a while ago for under $15 each. I spent this past weekend reading through the Grimm Fairy Tales, and yes–they are fairly gory. Not by today’s standards, but all the same… For instance, Sleeping Beauty’s wicked stepmother is made to dance in red-hot iron shoes until she dies. H.C. Andersen isn’t quite as gory, but he’s fairly morbid. I would recommend his (original) version of _The Little Mermaid,_ but it’s really depressing. No spoilers here, but I’ll tell you one thing: Disney was **way** off. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gory-fairy-tales-question/122364/7 "2002-08-05T20:36:04Z")
If you’re interested in going beyond _Grimm’s_ and Andersen, I recommend _English Fairy Tales_, collected by Joseph Jacobs. I have three different printings of this, it’s one of my favourite collections. (I have a whole shelf of fairy tales, and no children. Go ahead, laugh.) [Online version here](http://www.belinus.co.uk/fairytales/FaerypiecesEnglishfairytales.htm). I mention this one because it has some of the goriest english folk tales ever. > [@](#): > > The stepmother was angry, but she pretended not to mind the loss. She said to the child: ‘Come, lay your head on my lap that I may comb your hair.’ So the little one laid her head in the woman’s lap, who proceeded to comb the yellow silken hair. And when she combed the hair fell over her knees, and rolled right down to the ground. > > Then the stepmother hated her more for the beauty of her hair; so she said to her, ‘I cannot part your hair on my knee, fetch a billet of wood.’ So she fetched it. Then said the stepmother, ‘I cannot part your hair with a comb, fetch me an axe.’ So she fetched it. > > ‘Now,’ said the wicked woman, ‘lay your head down on the billet whilst I part your hair.’ > > Well! she laid down her little golden head without fear; and _whist!_ down came the axe, and it was off. So the mother wiped the axe and laughed. **(From _The Rose Tree_)** Sweet dreams, sleepyhead! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gtbiehle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f8ce5/32.png) [@gtbiehle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gtbiehle)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gory-fairy-tales-question/122364/8 "2002-08-05T20:53:24Z")
I have two comments and two questions. The Grimms’ project was actually to study the deep beliefs of the German people in order to determine their influence on beliefs about jurisprudence. This information comes from the introduction of the Zipes translation. Also, once the books began to sell (!), the Grimms bowdlerized their own books to get them to sell even better. In the first edition, it is generally not the stepmother who is evil to her child but the mother. Also they improved the flow and entertainment value of the stories. Question: Does anyone know where I can get a first edition? Next, whistlepig, why should Bettelheim rot in hell? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gory-fairy-tales-question/122364/9 "2002-08-05T22:04:27Z")
**gtbiehle** , Bettelheim is generally known for cooking his statistics to suggest that poor people are poor because of an innate lack of intelligence. (That’s right, the “Bell Curve” isn’t simply stupid, it’s unoriginal.) Also, with regard to the later editions of Grimm being bowlderized, I recall that in the original _The Three Army Surgeons_, the man with the pig’s eyes was explicitly compelled to roll in “Scheisse” – later changed to a more generic sort of filth. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gory-fairy-tales-question/122364/10 "2002-08-05T22:06:46Z")
“Bowlderized” is a typo, not a spelling error. I swear.