# Gosh, the Phantom Menace really WAS bad. SPOILERS!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2002, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358 "2002-05-10T20:31:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/21 "2002-05-11T22:52:05Z")
Actually, **El Elvis Rojo** , it seems that you didn’t hate to spoil it. Thank you ever so much. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/22 "2002-05-11T23:34:38Z")
I have a secret message for **El Elvis Rojo** : We have spoiler tags now. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/23 "2002-05-12T07:41:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by acsenray \* > I can’t think about one good thing to say about that damn movie. Oh, I can. Darth Maul. R2-D2. Hi Opal! The design of the battle droids (hey, I liked the lanky look). Tuskin Raiders taking potshots at pod racers. The final Jedi duel. Overall, while I wouldn’t say it was the best movie of all time, I also wouldn’t say it was _completely_ without merit. I gave it a C+, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/24 "2002-05-12T09:53:19Z")
Aw Jeez… After reading threads like these, I sometimes wonder if I should change my nickname. There is, however a semi-spoiler-laden review I read every day or so to keep my hopes up [here](http://aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=11796) ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/25 "2002-05-12T12:56:42Z")
eh… While TPM did suck the steam of a cantina servants piss, it did have some merit. Darth Maul did look cool, and was a good villian, but could have been mesurably improved if he had done some real evil. The jedi fight scenes were worthy of admission alone. I don’t know one kid I grew up with that hasn’t wished they had a light sabre at some stage. The double edged lightsabre was enough to make me mark out when I first saw it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/26 "2002-05-12T13:51:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Darth Maul did look cool I thought he looked laughable. [This is what he reminded me of](http://members.tripod.com/~ReyMjr/rey36.jpg). Yeah, I know I mentioned it before; but Darth Maul was supposed to look “cool” and “evil” and “menacing”. I thought he looked comedic. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/27 "2002-05-12T13:55:25Z")
To add to the list of problems with TPM, here’s one that occurred to me a couple of weeks ago: Qui-Gon makes two bets with Watto. The first is for the parts he needs: Qui-Gon bets that Anakin will win, putting their SR-71 Blackbird with the custom high-polish aluminum siding up against Watto’s parts. Fine and good. The second is for Anakin’s freedom: Qui-Gon bets Anakin will win, and puts up Anakin’s racing pod (although Watto thinks it belongs to Qui-Gon) against possession of Anakin. Watto accepts this bet, but when Qui-Gon wants to include Anakin’s mother, Watto says, “No pod is worth two slaves.” But he takes the bet, so it seems that a pod IS worth one slave. After the race, Anakin sells the pod racer and shows his mother, “look at all the money we got!” A good price, apparently, for a racer capable of beating Sebulba. But wait! Why can’t they use that money to purchase Anakin’s mother’s freedom? Anakin has been won, he’s free and clear. It’s been established that a pod is worth one slave, and they apparently got a good sale price for theirs. What the hell? ---
**Author:** ![Doublemint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doublemint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doublemint)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/28 "2002-05-12T13:57:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sealemon88 \* > \*\* > > You know what REALLY pisses me off about midiclorians? The whole thing is a lame-ass way to make something mystical, that didn’t need to be explained, and make it seem more scientifically plausible. > Phantom Menace could have been SO much better. That’s the tragedy. \*\* THANK YOU! That was absolutely my biggest gripe in the whole movie. The Force should not have a material basis, it should not be something physical that you can measure, it’s the Force dammit, mystical and unexplainable, not available to every Tom, Dick, and Gran who can scoop the damn things out of living cells – you’d think that technology would be available in their society now wouldn’t you? Phew. That being ranted, I have to say that Ewan’s Obi Wan was outstanding but I thought that Liam mailed his Qui-gon portrayal in. He just walked through that role and put nothing into it. He’s a better actor than that. The movie over all rated just an OK in my personal ratings system - the great savior for the thing were the dueling scenes that showed some of the best choreography filmed since Gene Kelly hung up his shoes. [And as to Star Wars, Yes HAN SHOT FIRST] ---
**Author:** ![Philosophocles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Philosophocles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philosophocles)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/29 "2002-05-14T04:16:32Z")
In one of the Star Wars episodes (perhaps part III), when a certain character is getting especially annoying, have Mr. T bust through a wall and start tossing Jar Jar Binks around like a rag doll, saying stuff like, “I pity the foo’ who turns to the dark side” and “That’s what you git, sucka.” ---
**Author:** ![Sealemon88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Sealemon88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sealemon88)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/30 "2002-05-14T04:57:24Z")
> [@](#): > > THANK YOU! That was absolutely my biggest gripe in the whole movie. The Force should not have a material basis, it should not be something physical that you can measure, it’s the Force dammit, mystical and unexplainable, not available to every Tom, Dick, and Gran who can scoop the damn things out of living cells – you’d think that technology would be available in their society now wouldn’t you? And I forgot to mention the bestest part of the whole thing: Why would Lucas take the time to try and de-mystify The Force, only to have Yoda anounce the Two Siths Only Rule? Why should there only be two Siths at a time? Is the galaxy really not large enough for there to be more evil, naughty dark Jedi? THe whole thing is obviously a way to explain why, in ROTJ the Emperor needs Luke to wack Vader and take his place, but it makes no sense in the series. I picture a whole series of potential evil jedi, waiting in line for the announcement the Darth Blech finally ate it, now serving #435. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/31 "2002-05-14T06:02:25Z")
Ok, I have to ask, since this has been seriously bugging me. What the hell is all this Sith crap, anyway? Where did that come from? Perhaps my memory is slipping, but for the past few years, I keep hearing Vader called “Dark Lord of Sith” which sounds like some lispy BDSM pseudonym. Is this actually in the movies, or did it just get invented somewhere while I wasn’t looking? Thanks. Tenebras ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/32 "2002-05-14T07:02:49Z")
**Finagle** , I just thought it was shit. Bad, boring, shit. No redeeming qualities, and the child actor was just u-n-s-p-e-a-k-a-b-l-e. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/33 "2002-05-15T11:06:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eternal \* > \*\*Hell, with the exception of any scene that had thad damn kid in it, I thought it was a really good movie. I didn’t even mind Jar Jar that much. IMO, the hatred for him was largely just a thing the media grabbed because they wanted to talk about the biggest movie of the summer, and from then on it just kept getting repeated. > > That kid contributed more to the movie’s failure than anything else. I mean, sure young Anakin DID have to be in the flick, but pod racing? Hoppin in a fighter and destroying a ship through pure chance? The force is strong in him, but it can’t account for that.\*\* I mentioned this in another thread, but what y’all have been saying inspired me. (BTW, **SPOOFE** , your analysis was spot-on!) Anakin was a crummy role no matter who was playing it, but it encompassed Jake Lloyd’s entire range. Haley Joel Osment, who auditioned but didn’t even get a callback, simply would not have done. Imagine the pod race: “[awed whisper] _It’s working!_” [stares transfixed, gets sideswiped, and ends up in a twisted pile of metal on the floor of the canyon.] Or saying goodbye to his mom: “Will I see you again?” “What does your heart tell you?” “My heart tells me…you will always be in my heart [sniffle, gulp, perfect tear starts creeping downwards]…Oh, mommy, I’m going to be a Jedi and I am going to make you so proud and I’ll buy your freedom and—” [Obi-Wan yanks Anakin up and away]“Put a sock in it; let’s get going!” Or meeting Amidala: “You’re so beautiful I’m just going to stare at you until you get creeped out and you call your goons to squash me and I won’t have to be in the sequel!” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/34 "2002-05-15T11:23:12Z")
> [@](#): > > What the hell is all this Sith crap, anyway? Where did that come from? Perhaps my memory is slipping, but for the past few years, I keep hearing Vader called “Dark Lord of Sith” which sounds like some lispy BDSM pseudonym. Is this actually in the movies, or did it just get invented somewhere while I wasn’t looking? The term ‘Sith Lord’ was originally used in the novelization of A New Hope (ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster). ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/35 "2002-05-17T04:21:38Z")
Aha… That explains everything. Thanks. 🙂 Tenebras ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/36 "2002-05-17T10:05:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Why should there only be two Siths at a time? Is the galaxy really not large enough for there to be more evil, naughty dark Jedi? Actually, that’s exactly how it is. 4,000 years ago (give or take a few decades), there were lots and lots of Sith. They were big, powerful, and tough-ass mofos. Unfortunately, what destroyed them was infighting… the Sith turned on each other in a mad lust for power. After that, the surviving Sith decided that, to prevent another such catastrophe, he should only have _one_ apprentice, and they should remain hidden. Which is weird… it took them 4,000 years to get their revenge? I mean, I know it’s a dish best served cold, but who eats their food at Absolute Zero? ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358/37 "2002-05-17T10:49:01Z")
Well why not? I mean, if the Date and Satsuma clans could bide their time against Tokugawa for a few hundred years here on Earth, why shouldn’t some Dark Side dudes be even more patient? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gosh-the-phantom-menace-really-was-bad-spoilers/108358.md?page=1)