# Got a warning email from cis@amazon.com **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 28, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780 "2015-09-28T00:24:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/21 "2015-09-29T16:03:39Z")
> [@kunlun](#): > > …And last time I checked, an account banned for any reason loses all access to digital content, including Kindle purchases, so watch out if you have any sort of investment there. Re the Kindle content, here’s a hint: look up ways to de-DRM your content, and back it up yourself. I won’t post links because there are arguments both ways as to whether that’s legal in the US. > [@Amazon bureaucrat](#): > > you’ve ordered with us a number of times, but we’re having difficulty getting your packages to you… > …Continued failure to comply with our policies… Well this is pretty bizarre. One failed order is not “a number of times”. And as others have said, WHAT policy violations??? What you didn’t say was whether there was any kind of tracking on the packages. If so, what does the carrier say about it? If not: where would the packages have been left if you were out? Ours are left by the front door and we’ve never had anything go missing, but we’re in a pretty safe neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/22 "2015-09-29T17:18:13Z")
Read between the lines. They’re not accusing you of stealing packages. They just don’t really have time to hire a PD to investigate your $500 package. Their standard policy is to side with the customer, you, until you fall outside of some statistically predefined norm for claims. They send such volume that they will just absorb the cost of one or two missed shipments here and there, but if it keeps happening to one account, they don’t care whose fault it is – the shipper’s or yours or theirs or your bad neighbor’s – the cost of doing business with you just becomes too high, so rather than wasting their time dealing with a full investigation, they’ll just cut you off. You need Amazon much more than they need you. Losing you means saving the hassle of dealing with missed shipments so they can keep delivering fine to the other 95% of their customers. They don’t care. And if you do, find a smaller merchant who will work with signature confirmation and all that, a business small enough for your $500 order to matter. You’re nobody to Amazon. We all are. They’ll treat you well until you’re no longer profitable, and then you’re cut off. Amazon got big not through individualized attention to every single lowly customer, but by massively scaling up economies of scale. They have humans on board only as a last resort, and no one single customer’s time is worth all that much to them if it hampers their efficiency. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/23 "2015-09-29T20:25:38Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Please keep in mind when Standard Shipping is chosen on an order, we may use the U.S. Postal Service, UPS, Federal Express, or DHL when shipping your order. Unfortunately, it isn’t possible to choose a specific shipper for orders. IMO this is a big problem. UPS does a good job around here. FedEx and USPS, decent. DHL does terribly (are they even still in business in the USA?) Amazon should allow the customers to choose the service that works best for them. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/24 "2015-09-29T20:48:29Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > You’re nobody to Amazon. We all are. They’ll treat you well until you’re no longer profitable, and then you’re cut off. Amazon got big not through individualized attention to every single lowly customer, but by massively scaling up economies of scale. They have humans on board only as a last resort, and no one single customer’s time is worth all that much to them if it hampers their efficiency. Amazon has built its success on two things: scale and other-worldly customer support. And when those two things conflict, they tend to err on the side of making customers happy. I’m sure there’s some line you can cross where they actively believe you’re a fraudster and won’t do business with you anymore, but until then, they’ll generally make things right. Why don’t you [the OP, that is] call/email and ask for clarification? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/25 "2015-09-29T20:59:29Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > And when those two things conflict, they tend to err on the side of making customers happy. I gotta say on the purely anecdotal side all of my interactions with Amazon customer service have been sterling. Including not charging me for a pricey computer monitor that was stolen from my front yard after delivery and refunding me a couple hundred dollars on a camera purchase after the price dropped precipitously a day or two after I had ordered it. I’ve definitely cost them some money. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/26 "2015-09-29T21:03:49Z")
[This](http://www.gocomics.com/candorville/2012/12/25) was the first thing that came to mind ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/27 "2015-09-29T21:13:40Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > The bizarre thing about this letter is that in no way describes any policies that have been violated or that could be complied with, so the last sentence is a complete _non sequitur_. Maybe it’s their “don’t be a jerk” rule. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/28 "2015-09-29T23:53:00Z")
The letter seems like a veiled warning not to use Amazon’s refund policy too often. They aren’t directly making accusations of abuse in the letter. But they want customers to know they are monitoring refunds and lost packages activity. Too be fair, most stores are similar. Home Depot has a very friendly no questions asked policy. I’ve returned unopened building supplies left over from a completed project. They didn’t even need a receipt. My account activity history indicated when they were purchased. The cashier brings up the item by scanning the bar code. But I’m careful not to return things too often. I’ll keep inexpensive things (packages of screws, electrical switches etc) rather than return them. Just to avoid a long list of returns on my account. I rather be cautious then get flagged for possible abuse of their return policy. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/29 "2015-09-30T06:32:21Z")
Phishing scam? I’ve gotten a couple of e-mails with a Paypal from address (which is whitelisted) claiming I authorized a charge and I need to respond something something. Inevitably there’s no such charge on my account, and the e-mail is to an address that isn’t the one Paypal sends charge notifications to. The first time it happened, having a suspicion as to what was going on, I moused over a link in the e-mail, and sure enough, not Paypal. I have a feeling this is likewise not Amazon, judging from the English, if you can call it that, in the message ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/30 "2015-10-01T17:48:28Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > But YES - Amazon needs to change their policies such that some form of delivery confirmation can be required. > > No confirmation of delivery - reship > Confirmation of delivery - shit outta luck on replacement. You don’t become the world’s largest retailer by pissing people off. That, and tons of sex toys. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/cZ0qpPTH1ow/hqdefault.jpg "News 2 Blooper: Amazon vs. WalMart") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ0qpPTH1ow) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/31 "2015-10-01T17:56:52Z")
Was it really [cis@amazon.com](mailto:cis@amazon.com) or was it that text that really linked to a cis.nigarianscamartists.sa address? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/32 "2015-10-01T18:06:55Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > If I were Amazon, (or any seller) such arrangements would be at the buyer’s own risk. I would get some form of proof of sending, and after that - if you don’t receive it, well tough shit. How many multi-billion dollar e-commerce companies have you managed? “Tough shit” isn’t usually a very good customer retention policy. There’s a really good reason Amazon does things this way. It costs a lot to do delivery confirmation for every order. It costs a lot to piss off a customer when you won’t refund them something that got stolen. And [it might not be legal to have that policy anyway](http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0221-billed-merchandise-you-never-received). Their current policy works really well. The vast majority of packages do not get stolen. Adding a bunch of extra costs because a few do is a foolish policy. When a particular address has a history of refunds, then you investigate and figure out the best way to cover your costs in that case. I’ll admit that Amazon’s email is confusingly worded, but I’ll tell you exactly what policy is being violated: Don’t order things for mail delivery if you don’t have a safe and reliable way to receive those deliveries. It is neither your fault nor Amazon’s fault that there are thieves. But it is your fault if you keep ordering things and expecting them to pay for thievery. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/33 "2015-10-01T18:21:57Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > If I were Amazon, (or any seller) such arrangements would be at the buyer’s own risk. I would get some form of proof of sending, and after that - if you don’t receive it, well tough shit. Nope, sorry, that not how the law works. In general, using the US Mail, etc, the buyer is 100% responsible for getting the payment to the seller, and the seller is responsible for getting the paid for goods to the buyer. (I skip odd FOB freight shipping rules, since you’re not buying a tractor). Now, there’s a new complication- say the package does get to the Front porch, and is left there: but is then stolen. Who is responsible? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/34 "2015-10-01T22:20:51Z")
There’s no reason they couldn’t charge you extra to allow you to get signature delivery, and it reduces their customer base to not provide it. Any costs would be offset by the extra fee. In fact, I was pretty sure that Amazon did offer multiple shipping options. I know they offer faster delivery options. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/35 "2015-10-02T21:53:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope, sorry, that not how the law works. In general, using the US Mail, etc, the buyer is 100% responsible for getting the payment to the seller, and the seller is responsible for getting the paid for goods to the buyer. (I skip odd FOB freight shipping rules, since you’re not buying a tractor). I’m not so sure that is the law, though. The [UCC](https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-509) would seem to indicate that once goods are tendered to the common carrier, risk belongs to the buyer. Sellers’ assuming the responsibility seems to be just a good business practice. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/36 "2015-10-02T22:10:00Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I’m not so sure that is the law, though. The [UCC](https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-509) would seem to indicate that once goods are tendered to the common carrier, risk belongs to the buyer. Sellers’ assuming the responsibility seems to be just a good business practice. As I said\*,I skip odd FOB freight shipping rules, since you’re not buying a tractor \* "(a) _if it does not require him to deliver them at a particular destination,"_ When you ship via USPS etc, dont you ask for the good to be delivered to a _particular destination_? ---
**Author:** ![Kittycooper12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Kittycooper12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kittycooper12)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/37 "2021-11-17T19:37:37Z")
I’ve just been banned for having 2 out of the 3 deliveries I had last weekend go missing from my doorstep. Delivery instructions were to leave outside basement door which is not visible from the street but driver left outside my main front door and took a photo to show his mistake. Had the same thing happen 2 months ago. I emailed amazon explaining that it will keep happening if their driver doesn’t follow my instructions and low and behold it’s happened again for the exact reason I gave them back then. This time I discovered my prime account is no longer open or active. Had no emails warning me that any further losses will result in suspension. Nothing at all. Thrt owe me for the 3 items I didn’t receive. I was refunded £17 which was for the cheapest of the 4 items in the 2 deliveries. Strange that they accept responsibility for the cheapest item but not for the £75 item included in the same delivery. I have no account so no easy way to get through to somebody. I have not received any refunds and only a promise for the one refund. £67 is being held by my bank for a cancelled order Amazon failed to refund or return over 3 weeks ago. All in all amazon owe me £184 and on top if losing that money I’m now banned from using a very helpful resource. I buy 2 or 3 things a week and after having 4 stolen I’m no longer a values customer. Totally ridiculous right ? ---
**Author:** ![Kittycooper12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Kittycooper12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kittycooper12)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780/38 "2021-11-17T19:41:01Z")
Items are still Amazon’s property till they are either handed to customer or signed for by somebody. My lost / stolen items were still owned by Amazon but after spending hours getting police reports and follow up police confirmation of investigations report I am now the guilty party and subsequently kicked out of Amazon’s big black book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-a-warning-email-from-cis-amazon-com/732780.md?page=1)