# Got/Gotten Dear Cecil **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 22, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670 "2003-11-22T12:43:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LouSheehan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df705f/32.png) [@LouSheehan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouSheehan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/1 "2003-11-22T12:43:44Z")
‘We’ve got ten thousand dollars for laboratory equipment.’ Why not just ‘We have ten thousand dollars for laboratory equipment’? Isn’t the word ‘got’ incorrect in the prior sentence? I recall a few years ago the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania used the slogan: “You’ve got a friend in Pennsylvania.” My understanding is they have problems funding their schools. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/2 "2003-11-22T21:11:20Z")
There’s nothing particularly wrong with “have got”. However, it used to be that “I don’t have indigestion” and “I haven’t got indigestion” meant two different things. ---
**Author:** ![LouSheehan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df705f/32.png) [@LouSheehan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouSheehan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/3 "2003-11-22T21:34:55Z")
If the word isn’t ‘necessary,’ then isn’t it improperly used? ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/4 "2003-11-22T22:23:22Z")
Link to the article: [What’s correct, “he had GOT some” or “he had GOTTEN some”?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_294.html) Anything to do with American English, I’m staying _well_ out of … ---
**Author:** ![LouSheehan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df705f/32.png) [@LouSheehan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouSheehan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/5 "2003-11-22T22:31:34Z")
🙂 ‘War Between the States’ or the ‘Civil War?’ Let’s ask George Bush and Arnold … ---
**Author:** ![freemra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d07c76/32.png) [@freemra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freemra)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/6 "2003-11-23T01:53:45Z")
When I was being eductaed at my English prep and public schools 50 years ago (that’s grade and high school over here) I was always taught to avoid the use of the word “got” because it was a colloquial word that well-educated English gentlemen should not use. ---
**Author:** ![LouSheehan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df705f/32.png) [@LouSheehan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouSheehan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/7 "2003-11-23T01:59:33Z")
Around here they say it sounds ‘Pennsylvania Dutch.’ What do New Zealanders think? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/8 "2003-11-23T17:44:07Z")
> [@](#): > > If the word isn’t ‘necessary,’ then isn’t it improperly used? No. > [@](#): > > When I was being eductaed at my English prep and public schools 50 years ago (that’s grade and high school over here) I was always taught to avoid the use of the word “got” because it was a colloquial word that well-educated English gentlemen should not use. No, you weren’t taught any such thing; “got” is the _only_ correct form of the simple past of “get”. Perhaps you were taught something along the lines of the following: > [@](#): > > The use of _get_ in the passive, as in _We got sunburned at the beach,_ is generally avoided in formal writing. In less formal contexts, however, the construction can provide a useful difference in tone or emphasis, as between the sentences _The demonstrators were arrested_ and _The demonstrators got arrested._ The first example implies that the responsibility for the arrests rests primarily with the police, while the example using _get_ implies that the demonstrators deliberately provoked the arrests. > > In colloquial use and in numerous nonstandard varieties of American English, the past tense form _got_ has the meaning of the present. This arose probably by dropping the helping verb _have_ from the past perfects _have got, has got: We’ve got to go, we’ve got a lot of problems_ became _We got to go, we got a lot of problems._ The reanalysis of _got_ as a present-tense form has led to the creation of a third singular _gots_ in some varieties of English, especially African American Vernacular English. – American Heritage Dictionary Or perhaps you were taught, incorrectly, that “got” is an incorrect substitute for “gotten”; I believe there is a superstition to that effect among the pinkie-up school of grammarians. ---
**Author:** ![DKOde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8dc957/32.png) [@DKOde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKOde)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/9 "2003-11-24T00:14:36Z")
I agree with LouSheehan. The past participal sense is intended only in a minority of instances; generally, the got/gotten is redundant. In common usage, “I’ve got a headache” simply means “I have a headache.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/10 "2003-11-24T02:12:22Z")
That doesn’t make it “improper”. ---
**Author:** ![sford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/edb3f5/32.png) [@sford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sford)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/11 "2003-11-24T20:53:27Z")
“Improper” v.s. “ill-advised”? A usage can be technically correct but stylistically frowned upon. Especially in writing, the insertion of unnecessary wordage can make a bad impression. ---
**Author:** ![TallDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d78d45/32.png) [@TallDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TallDave)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/12 "2003-11-25T02:52:33Z")
I somehow remember way back being told I was going to get it. Then I got it. When I got it, I knew I had gotten it. ---
**Author:** ![sford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/edb3f5/32.png) [@sford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sford)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/13 "2003-11-25T14:32:24Z")
Heh. Did you just make that up? Sometimes, an incorrect word is back-formed by applying a general rule. This often happens with irregular verbs. (I wish I could remember some of the common examples.) Although I naturally bow to Cecil’s explanation of the parallel evolution of got v.s. gotten, I do wonder if that kind of back-formation might have been partially responsible for the popularization of “gotten” in spite of “pinkie-up” grammarians’ disapproval. (I like that term.) ---
**Author:** ![fgarriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c6cbf5/32.png) [@fgarriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fgarriel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/14 "2003-11-25T15:23:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by freemra \* > \*\*When I was being eductaed at my English prep and public schools 50 years ago (that’s grade and high school over here) I was always taught to avoid the use of the word “got” because it was a colloquial word that well-educated English gentlemen should not use. \*\* I was taught the same at a lower-middle class NJ public school, and it’s stuck. I can’t say “got” without thinking to myself, “should I be saying ‘obtained’ instead?” ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/15 "2003-11-26T04:39:38Z")
Have milk? ---
**Author:** ![LouSheehan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df705f/32.png) [@LouSheehan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouSheehan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/16 "2003-11-26T08:22:03Z")
Obtained milk? Have got milk? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/17 "2003-11-26T13:35:51Z")
I’ve got sixpence… ---
**Author:** ![TallDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d78d45/32.png) [@TallDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TallDave)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-gotten-dear-cecil/214670/18 "2003-11-26T15:17:26Z")
If you are told to get going, can you say that you got going? What about your arrival. Might one say that they got there? English is looking more like French when we have these problems.