# GoT Red Wedding Spoilers: Book vs TV **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 6, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272 "2013-06-06T04:03:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272/21 "2013-07-31T03:47:51Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Robb’s 14 at the beginning of the books, of course he’s stupid. > > I was shocked at the Red Wedding because the whole story is so out of character for the genre. When Ned died I just sort of recentered myself. “Ok, it wasn’t actually about Ned. This is more like a prologue that sets up the revenge of the Starks to be more powerful.” Nope. The second book didn’t disavow you of that notion? He’s 16 when he gets married. Didn’t he have any decent counsel around there romp stop him or at least suggest an engagement? They knew the rules of the game well enough. Thus far, three books in, the Starks just aren’t smart or ruthless enough to compete. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272/22 "2013-07-31T13:27:11Z")
While Martin doesn’t give his characters plot armor he always sets up things to give the impression that they might survive. There is always the appearance that things might work out “Ned is totally joining the night’s watch and reuniting with Jon!”, so it is always shock what something that shouldn’t be a shock happens. Robb’s plan for taking back the north was actually a great one. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272/23 "2013-07-31T14:35:42Z")
But, Dany has plot armor right? the entire contingent would be rendered faceless with her gone. (no spoilers please. maybe it’s a bad idea to avoid going further into the books just to feel how it would be like to experience the tv first. and then have it spoilt for both! ) ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272/24 "2013-07-31T16:09:45Z")
Dany seems fairly maniacal to me as well. As I said, she takes me out of the books. Her Father was a nut job and her entire line is as legitimate or ill as any other given that they gained the throne through conquest. Her and her dragons ruling Westeros doesn’t seem anymore appealing to me than the Lannisters. Finishing up the third book and they’re still great reads (I’ve gotten very used to how each chapter is a character). ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272/25 "2013-07-31T17:03:58Z")
On reflection, the Red Wedding is more shocking then I initially gave it credit for. I liked all the comments as it gave me a different perspective. Onto book four! ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272/26 "2013-07-31T17:56:21Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > The second book didn’t disavow you of that notion? He’s 16 when he gets married. Didn’t he have any decent counsel around there romp stop him or at least suggest an engagement? They knew the rules of the game well enough. Thus far, three books in, the Starks just aren’t smart or ruthless enough to compete. If you’re going by the books, please don’t forget that _Catelyn_ is the one who wanted her husband to become the King’s Hand. To further his career–and to investigate the “murder” of Jon Arryn–at the urging of her sister, whose mental status had changed since their last meeting. Wasn’t she also the one who wanted Sansa to marry the King’s son? The Starks did well in the North. Catelyn (from a supposedly more worldly family) was the one who sent them off to King’s Landing. Of course, she had good reason to stay behind, to care for her stricken son. But she left him on another “important” errand–which led her to kidnap Tyrion & deliver him to her nutso sister, starting the war. I’ve agreed with most of the changes made for the show. In fact, I’m tempted to stop reading the books & just let the show tell me the rest of the story. (I haven’t read the last one yet.) But this particular plot change comes to my mind whenever people bitch about how “dumb” the Starks are… ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272/27 "2013-07-31T18:09:27Z")
When I was reading, I thought Martin did a great job playing up the salt and bread tradition. It was simultaneously foreshadowing that something terrible could happen, but it also really drove home how ingrained that custom is to the culture and how atrocious a taboo it is to break it. Given how much emphasis their is in Westeros on honor, I found it genuinely shocking how willing Frey was to undermine his reputation and honor for revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272/28 "2013-07-31T18:36:26Z")
Given that Jamie Lannister, the Kingslayer, is still wandering around it suggests that tradition can and often is ignored. Bridget makes some good points but Ned Stark really was out of his depth. Further, the Freys were clearly not to be trusted from the get go. They didn’t show up until after the battle during the first rebellion and Catelyn had to go a beg them to support Robb. I wasn’t shocked that Frey would forget his honour the moment it suited him. I think they just should have been more aware of what was going on. Maybe it was the desperation but they walked into the perfect trap. At this point though (and I’m on the third book) no one should put anything past the Lannisters. They are utterly ruthless though I can’t see who can actually stand up to them anymore. There doesn’t seem to be anyone other than Dany who has an army to fight them. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272/29 "2013-07-31T19:18:50Z")
Two of the seven kingdoms haven’t fought at all, I imagine they have armies. And while the Tyrells are aligned with the Lannisters at the moment, that’s not always the case. Their armies are very lightly used too, while Robb was killing a lot of Lannister forces until he was killed. Of course Cat had to beg the Freys. She was asking them to go to war with the crown and the most powerful house in Westeros. You can’t hold that against them. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272/30 "2013-07-31T19:42:02Z")
Here’s what it was like to see it on TV first: That's a compilation. You can find plenty of original videos as well. Readers knew what was coming and people organized (on Reddit I think) to record the reactions of the nonreaders. As you can see, some took it rather hard. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272/31 "2013-07-31T20:16:34Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Of course Cat had to beg the Freys. She was asking them to go to war with the crown and the most powerful house in Westeros. You can’t hold that against them. No but there are different ways of trying to convince people to fight. Catelyn basically had to beg and offer Rob’s hand in marriage. They knew that Frey was a prickly character and Roose Bolton never seemed to be trustworthy. Just might have gotten their guard up. I guess they were desperate but it makes for good reading. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272/32 "2013-07-31T21:08:17Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Not a spoiler because it’s total speculation: I’m hoping Roslyn becomes an ally in a total genocide of her father’s line. It would be ironic if an old rake with dozens of children ends up being succeeded by a grandson born to an umpteenth daughter. > > The state of the King of the North rebellion reminds me of the Wars of the Roses when Edward (Prince of Wales) and his father Henry VI were killed and there was no longer a Lancastrian claimant so the Yorks had clear victory. However, in that case a Lancastrian claimant presented himself (ignore the bastardy on both sides of his lineage) and overturned the Yorkist applecart, and I’m guessing the same will happen here- my guess being Rickon with his sister Arya as his general, but I’ve no idea. As as aside, who is based upon which personage in GRRM\_land. I got Robert: Edward IV Aerys: Henry VI Rhaegar: Edward of Westminster Cercei: Elizabeth Woodville’s looks with Margaret of Anjou’s personality Jamie Lannister: The military parts of Anthony Woodville Tyrion Lannister: The smart and able parts of Anthony Woodville Ned Stark: Sir William Hastings Tywin Lannister: Mixture of Warwick and Richard Woodville Stannis: Richard III Renly: George, Duke of Clarence Aegon Targaryen: William the Conqueror Rickard and Brandon Stark: 3rd Duke of York and Edmund Earl of Rutland Bran and Rickon: The Princes in the Tower. Dani: That Saxon princess who was married off the the Kiev King after Hastings Jorah Monmonth: Jasper Tudor and perhaps Margaret Beaufort. The Others: The Scots:D The Nightswatch: The Calais garrison. Whoever wins: Henry Tudor It is a bloody shame there is no Duchess Cecily. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/got-red-wedding-spoilers-book-vs-tv/660272.md?page=1)