# "Gotcha ya!" video from the conservative noise machine seeks to make NPR look bad **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 8, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960 "2011-03-08T19:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/201 "2011-03-10T16:07:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Who said it did? You admit yourself the exact truth of what I said: that you lot WANT TO BE ABLE TO PAINT ACORN as blamless and hold these other corporations liable. I didn’t say you were able to. You’re accusing me of something that is the opposite of what I said in the post you just replied to. I said we want the same standards applied to companies and ACORN: > [@](#): > > ACORN got the death penalty for being accused of a crime. I’m pointing out that your analogy fails because although **“our side” would like these entities to be held equally liable** , it doesn’t happen in the real world to corporations. (bolding added for emphasis) Please point out my “admission”. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/202 "2011-03-10T16:19:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, I feel that the whole factory operation that ACORN engaged in WAS a bad thing; I think the franchise works best when people care enough about voting to register on their own. > > But that’s completely irrelevant to this discussion, which again for your addled mind is: when is a company liable for the acts of its employees? Does the answer to that question truly depend on whether we approve of the company’s goals? Well isn’t this special. If you don’t do whatever it takes to register, you don’t care about voting, regardless of your circumstances. Ever live in the inner city? Stage 2: “I really think the franchise works best if we limit it to land owners. If people care about voting, they’ll choose to own land.” ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/203 "2011-03-10T16:27:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, I feel that the whole factory operation that ACORN engaged in WAS a bad thing; I think the franchise works best when people care enough about voting to register on their own. How ridiculous is that? It’s not like ACORN was dragging people out of soup kitchens and forcing them to register. The people who ACORN helped to register … wanted to register. Why is that diminished because they did it though the help of a non-profit as opposed to just winging it on their own? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/204 "2011-03-10T16:33:05Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > You’re accusing me of something that is the opposite of what I said in the post you just replied to. > > I said we want the same standards applied to companies and ACORN: > > (bolding added for emphasis) > > Please point out my “admission”. You’re claiming you WANTED ACORN to get the “death penalty?” I didn’t think that was the case. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/205 "2011-03-10T16:34:05Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Well isn’t this special. If you don’t do whatever it takes to register, you don’t care about voting, regardless of your circumstances. > > Ever live in the inner city? Yes. > [@](#): > > Stage 2: “I really think the franchise works best if we limit it to land owners. If people care about voting, they’ll choose to own land.” Not the same thing at all. “Choose to own land,” is not a simple matter. “Choose to register to vote,” is. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/206 "2011-03-10T16:36:44Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > How ridiculous is that? > > It’s not like ACORN was dragging people out of soup kitchens and forcing them to register. The people who ACORN helped to register … wanted to register. Why is that diminished because they did it though the help of a non-profit as opposed to just winging it on their own? Bullshit. They “wanted to register” in an off-handed, lackluster way. “Sure, if you’ve got the form in front of me right now, and I don’t have to do anything except write my name and address and sign, sure I’ll register.” They didn’t want to register in the way I wanted to register: getting to City Hall, walking up a staircase to the registrar’s office, and filling out the form. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/207 "2011-03-10T16:41:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, I feel that the whole factory operation that ACORN engaged in WAS a bad thing; I think the franchise works best when people care enough about voting to register on their own. > > But that’s completely irrelevant to this discussion, which again for your addled mind is: when is a company liable for the acts of its employees? Does the answer to that question truly depend on whether we approve of the company’s goals? Actually, you arrogant poseur, that IS the question: why do you think helping poor—and this IS the point—black people to vote is bad? Why do you think it’s okay for Blackwater to rape and murder people? And how come you’re such a dishonest slimeball that you’re comparing a charitable organization to a company of scumbags? I’m sure it’s a coincidence that they’re Republican-owned, Republican-approved, and produce more than a few Republican fantasies. ACORN, however, helps those black people that apparently you think should just get off their asses. You’re comparing helping poor people to murdering raping thugs, and that’s false equivalence. And you’re doing it so you can once again hide what a scumbag James O’Keefe is and how typical he is of your party. Go ahead, Bricker, whip out the insults. But your insults are all false while at the end of the day, you have to deal with the company you keep and what you think are ‘principles’. Shudder. You’re defending Blackwater and attacking ACORN. You’re desperately trying to once again threadjack on another thread about that lying scumbag James O’Keefe. If you had an argument, you wouldn’t have to resort to this kind of crap, but you do it every time. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/208 "2011-03-10T16:42:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You’re claiming you WANTED ACORN to get the “death penalty?” > > I didn’t think that was the case. No, I’m claiming that if ACORN gets it, companies should get it to. If companies are protected from it, then ACORN should to. That’s what I mean by “same standards”. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/209 "2011-03-10T16:42:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Bullshit. They “wanted to register” in an off-handed, lackluster way. “Sure, if you’ve got the form in front of me right now, and I don’t have to do anything except write my name and address and sign, sure I’ll register.” > > They didn’t want to register in the way I wanted to register: getting to City Hall, walking up a staircase to the registrar’s office, and filling out the form. Wow, so the people ACORN helped were just those shiftless, lazy peasants and they’re not as good as your rich white male ass, huh? That’s not even a dogwhistle. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/210 "2011-03-10T16:45:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. > > Not the same thing at all. “Choose to own land,” is not a simple matter. “Choose to register to vote,” is. Simple is relative to your resources. Choosing to register is simple. Having the time during City Hall working hours, getting someone to watch the kids, figuring out what bus route gets you there etc etc, is not. ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/211 "2011-03-10T16:58:28Z")
> [@margin](#): > > So…a company that has raped and murdered people is somehow comparable—in Bricker’s mind, that is-- with a charity that helped poor people register for the vote, and was in fact maligned by the very sort of person who supports the first company? I love how Bricker’s mind works. > > James O’Keefe is a lying, editing dissembler. So is Breitbart. There’s just not a lot of wiggle room there. So look at Bricker wiggle. You liberals, with your basing your judgments on context and whole picture nonsense. You can’t view single events as a symptom of an amoral, mercenary company like Blackwater. No, no, no. We must focus on a little detail so Bricker can call you a liberal hypocrite. So the question is you bilious, liberal twit, when are companies/agencies imputable to an employees actions? No other information to the discussion is welcome. Why? Because then we’d have to go back to the original topic as opposed to a distraction. You liberal you. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/212 "2011-03-10T17:07:32Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > No, I’m claiming that if ACORN gets it, companies should get it to. If companies are protected from it, then ACORN should to. > > That’s what I mean by “same standards”. OK, I gotcha. My mistake. Do you have a preference on which standard should be applied? That is, would you say that NEITHER ACORN nor Xe should be liable for the conduct of their execs, or BOTH should be? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/213 "2011-03-10T17:11:50Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Actually, you arrogant poseur, that IS the question: why do you think helping poor—and this IS the point—black people to vote is bad? Why do you think it’s okay for Blackwater to rape and murder people? And how come you’re such a dishonest slimeball that you’re comparing a charitable organization to a company of scumbags? I’m sure it’s a coincidence that they’re Republican-owned, Republican-approved, and produce more than a few Republican fantasies. ACORN, however, helps those black people that apparently you think should just get off their asses. > > You’re comparing helping poor people to murdering raping thugs, and that’s false equivalence. And you’re doing it so you can once again hide what a scumbag James O’Keefe is and how typical he is of your party. > > Go ahead, Bricker, whip out the insults. But your insults are all false while at the end of the day, you have to deal with the company you keep and what you think are ‘principles’. Shudder. You’re defending Blackwater and attacking ACORN. You’re desperately trying to once again threadjack on another thread about that lying scumbag James O’Keefe. If you had an argument, you wouldn’t have to resort to this kind of crap, but you do it every time. Well, let’s see. At the end of the day, I’m not complaining. I’m perfectly content at the results we’re seeing. You are, presumably, not content. So if it’s truly “end of the day” analysis you seek, I’m content to rest there. At the end of the day, ACORN no longer exists, and Xe does. At the end of the day, Schilling resigned from NPR, and their budget will probably get cut anyway. If you can’t handle the debate about the factors that should be considered and need to focus on the end of the day, there’s the end of the day. How do you like it? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/214 "2011-03-10T17:11:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK, I gotcha. My mistake. > > Do you have a preference on which standard should be applied? That is, would you say that NEITHER ACORN nor Xe should be liable for the conduct of their execs, or BOTH should be? Huh. Gee, for a minute there I thought we might have a chance of talking about Superrunt, James O’Keefe, the miraculous lying Republican weasel. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/215 "2011-03-10T17:12:50Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Huh. > > Gee, for a minute there I thought we might have a chance of talking about Superrunt, James O’Keefe, the miraculous lying Republican weasel. Talk away. You don’t see me defending him, and with good reason. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/216 "2011-03-10T17:19:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK, I gotcha. My mistake. > > Do you have a preference on which standard should be applied? That is, would you say that NEITHER ACORN nor Xe should be liable for the conduct of their execs, or BOTH should be? Any organization will have isolated problems at various levels, even the executive. The organization should be penalized for any misconduct at any level proportional to the level of misconduct. If you can show a pervasive, implicit organizational attitude that ignores or encourages the misconduct, then the punishment should affect the organization as a whole. IMO, Xe had a special, protected status in its role as a State Department security provider. I hold Xe to higher standards, especially in the context of it’s _life and death_ decision making process. Lets say ACORN was guilty of aiding and abetting human trafficking as that fraudulent video suggested. That branch should be immediately shut down and the organization should be required to undergo external audits to show that the case wasn’t evidence of a systemic problem. But all this is moot. Since businesses will not be held to these standards regardless of the laws on the books, it’s wrong to hold ACORN accountable at the “death penalty” level. If you announced the equivalent punishment to a publicly held company, i.e. blacklisted from any government contracts, the hue and cry would be deafening. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/217 "2011-03-10T17:30:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Bullshit. They “wanted to register” in an off-handed, lackluster way. “Sure, if you’ve got the form in front of me right now, and I don’t have to do anything except write my name and address and sign, sure I’ll register.” > > They didn’t want to register in the way I wanted to register: getting to City Hall, walking up a staircase to the registrar’s office, and filling out the form. How hard do we want to make it to vote? We already established having to own land is too hard, but having people bring you a form is too easy. Should barriers be put up for people who live near city hall, so voting isn’t too easy for them? Going next door to sign a form doesn’t seem that much harder than finding the ACORN guy. Would an organization that helped people who lived further away from city hall register be ok? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/218 "2011-03-10T17:31:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Talk away. You don’t see me defending him, and with good reason. No, you just changed the subject to attack the organization he lied about and to compare them to a company who has murdered at least seventeen civilians and committed—and tried to hide—one gang rape. [Nisour Square massacre - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Baghdad_shootings) Wiki, but the bare bones are there. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/219 "2011-03-10T17:33:10Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > How hard do we want to make it to vote? We already established having to own land is too hard, but having people bring you a form is too easy. Should barriers be put up for people who live near city hall, so voting isn’t too easy for them? Going next door to sign a form doesn’t seem that much harder than finding the ACORN guy. I’m sure it’s only a coincidence that Bricker approves of making voting difficult, which tends to affect people who don’t tend to vote for his party. Can’t imagine why. I’m certain it’s merely a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/220 "2011-03-10T17:33:11Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > How hard do we want to make it to vote? We already established having to own land is too hard, but having people bring you a form is too easy. Should barriers be put up for people who live near city hall, so voting isn’t too easy for them? Going next door to sign a form doesn’t seem that much harder than finding the ACORN guy. Hedge mazes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960.md?page=12)