# "Gotcha ya!" video from the conservative noise machine seeks to make NPR look bad **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 8, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960 "2011-03-08T19:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/241 "2011-03-10T23:24:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > While I admire your dedication to your civic duties, it’s not for you to decide how hard it ought to be to register. Sure it is. At least as much as any other citizen arguing for a particular government policy or action. Who, if not me? Do you have a more valid right than I to decide how hard it should be to register? Your vote counts more than mine, maybe? Your received your franchise from Thomas Jefferson, did you? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/242 "2011-03-10T23:27:52Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Perhaps you could quote the passage I wrote where I talked about a rape occurring, either in this thread or in the other one you linked to? > > Or perhaps you could admit that I never once talked about a rape with respect to Blackwater/Xe? Whether you did or not, the subject arose in this thread: > [@margin](#): > > See Bricker compare **a charity to register those lazy lackluster black people** to a company \*\* that murders and gang rapes people.\*\* > . > . > . > See Bricker ignore that the charity that benefits mostly black people is not the same as a company that murders and rapes people. See Bricker deny, deny, deny. So that’s what I’m addressing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/243 "2011-03-10T23:44:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > … This entire line of discussion arose from the claim that ACORN had done absolutely, literally zero, nothing wrong… Now, that strikes me as a rather a self-serving construct. You have stated the case in the most absurd imaginable terms, i.e., utter innocence to make angels blush. **Bricker** , brave champion of truth and reason, has finally retreated to a solid bunker of undeniable fact. You are quite correct, and I throw myself at your feet grovel grovel. To the extent that I ever suggested such a ridiculous thing, I herewith repudiate such a position being entirely convinced otherwise. To the extent that I ever believed such an absurdity, I credit **Bricker’s** keen mind and incisive reasoning for correcting. Friend\*\* Bricker\*\* has clearly won this argument, to the extent there was ever an argument worthy of firing off such high-caliber ammunition. Frankly, I cannot think of any human organization that meets such daunting standards. Camp Fire Girls, maybe, but not so much after that whole “puppy S’mores” incident. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/244 "2011-03-10T23:50:15Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > What Blackwater did was acts of commission, initiated at the highest levels of the company and carried out _by direction_ of the board. > > What ACORN did was a failure to act, initiated by _some_ of the highest execs, without the knowledge of the board, with no actions carried out by anyone who wasn’t in on the “keep quiet” direction. > > You honestly don’t see a difference between the two? You don’t see a difference between a whole company doing something illegal and directing their employees to do illegal things vs. a company (yeah I know they weren’t a company; it’s shorthand, ok?) NOT doing something and NOT directing their employees to NOT do anything because directing them would have blown the cover of the few who were trying to NOT do anything? > > At this point I have to think you’re just being obstinate. The difference is very clear: Blackwater directed people to do something while ACORN didn’t. One involved overt acts by dozens, perhaps hundreds, of people directed to make those actions while the other involved a few people keeping information to themselves. > > Your attempts to draw equivalence between the situations keeps failing, **Bricker** but for some reason you can’t see it. The board is absolutely responsible for ensuring an adequate control structure exists. Even ignoring the Blackwater non sequitur Bricker already pointed out, ACORN doesn’t get a pass because their board was clueless. That simply means embezzlement occurred, it was covered up, and the board was incompetent (assuming the board was, in fact, clueless). And I have NEVER heard a company excused because of incompetence or wrongdoing executed by the very people responsible for safeguarding the company, setting policy and ensuring it’s followed. This level of excuse making is ridiculous, even for this message board. “Madoff Investment Securities is as pure as the driven snow, your honor. It was just that one guy…” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/245 "2011-03-10T23:59:11Z")
Well, like I said before, these people are crazy, they’re not in it for the fast cars, money and drugs. If this cover-up was a matter of cash payoffs to the covering parties, I can be pretty harsh. That’s because I respect the mission of ACORN and expect every dime they can beg to go to said mission. But if they covered it up for reasons of personal embarrassment without direct gain, I lighten up a bit. And if they covered up out of fear of their political enemies, who would surely use any such leverage they could get their hands on. I’m downright sympathetic. Because then the victim ceases to be ACORN itself, but becomes the people ACORN might otherwise have helped. A sentence of community service seems most appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/246 "2011-03-11T00:03:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Now, that strikes me as a rather a self-serving construct. You have stated the case in the most absurd imaginable terms, i.e., utter innocence to make angels blush. **Bricker** , brave champion of truth and reason, has finally retreated to a solid bunker of undeniable fact. Yeah, OK, I admit it. I used my teeming Midochlorian count and a Jedi Mind Trick to make Diogenes say: > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There was no “wrongdoing,” period. End of sentence. Now I’m working on you. You feelin’ any inclinations involving a goat? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/247 "2011-03-11T00:19:53Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I am not going to read through the predictable nonsense that this thread will produce, but only respond only to _this_ nonsense. > > 1. This miscreant didn’t “seek” to make NPR look bad. He _did_ make NPR look bad. I’m talking about the **person who made the video** , not former NPR executive Ron Schiller. The videomaker came in with a specific agenda: To make NPR look bad. To fulfill that agenda, he came posing as a member of a muslim organization hoping to bait Schiller into accepting the donation (he declined). Even if he had made hundred videos where NPR looked good, he wouldn’t air any of them, because they don’t fit with the agenda. He didn’t come into that room seeking the truth, he seeked to generate a propoganda video. That’s why I rolled my eyes upon seeing news of this video, because it was put out by O’Keefe’s outfit… and O’Keefe has a very slimy history when it comes to video “exposes.” > [@](#): > > 1. The NPR executive worked for NPR! That NPR should take the “moral high ground” is laughable on its face as the NPR exec _(representing NPR!)_ took NPR into the moral gutter. “Taking the moral high ground” is advice for someone wronged. NPR was not wronged. If pointing and focusing a hidden camera (and letting you run your mouth) is a “vicious attack” you’re delusional. (and even the actors didn’t do much prompting) I’m sorry I didn’t put the post into the appropriate context, but I do feel NPR is being wronged. There’s a concerted campaign by conservatives, trying to portray NPR as having a radical leftist agenda. This should be laughable to anyone who has ever actually listened to NPR, but that meme seems to be gaining traction. They seek to remove NPR’s federal funding. They’d love all of our media to be corporate owned, and not have any non-profit news organizations. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/248 "2011-03-11T00:26:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Whether you did or not I didn’t. And you know it. Or should know it, as you should have read what I wrote before trying to claim I said something I didn’t say. > [@Bricker](#): > > , the subject arose in this thread: But not by me. Why do you expect me to defend what someone else wrote? > [@Bricker](#): > > So that’s what I’m addressing. Which you think allows you to claim I said something I didn’t say, in an attempt to get me to defend something I didn’t say, all while you claim I’m culpable for something I know nothing about **just like you claim that everyone at ACORN is responsible for something they knew nothing about**. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/249 "2011-03-11T00:41:35Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > This level of excuse making is ridiculous, even for this message board. “Madoff Investment Securities is as pure as the driven snow, your honor. It was just that one guy…” No, in most cases they just settle the matter with a pathetic fine without admitting any wrongdoing whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/250 "2011-03-11T11:13:35Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > No, in most cases they just settle the matter with a pathetic fine without admitting any wrongdoing whatsoever. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/251 "2011-03-11T12:05:30Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Cite? Let me rephrase. I look for examples in the news of corporations actually punished beyond a fine when the government finds them guilty of wrongdoing. Most of these cases that I see in the news result in companies settling for a fine and no admission of wrongdoing. I _want_ to find those counterexamples. I _want_ to be able to rub my hands together and gloat. They apparently just don’t make the media, and you’d think they would. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/252 "2011-03-11T13:08:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Horse. > > Shit. > > The Blackwater BOARD ordered the assault and rape of women, did it? > > My God, you’ve lost it. You don’t even care how crazy you sound now. > > “What’s next on the agenda, gentlemen?” > > “Mr. Chairmen, I move we adopt the rape and mutiliation proposal we discussed at our last meeting.” > > “A fine plan, Simmons. All those in favor?” Again, Bricker, because you’re so desperately trying to avoid it. When you give guns and clearances to losers—a fair number of whom have ‘problems’—it’s YOUR FUCKING JOB to make sure they’re not rapists and murderers. Christ, you’re a dishonorable shit. Anything to defend Repubs, right? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/253 "2011-03-11T15:03:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I am going to refuse to answer this point, because it’s too reasoned and logical for the Pit. Sorry, I’ll try to do better in the future you goat felching ambulance chaser.😃 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/254 "2011-03-12T04:39:27Z")
Take that back, you! **Bricker** uses a scanner and chases _police cars_ to the scene, not ambulances! 😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/255 "2011-03-12T13:36:37Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Let me rephrase. I look for examples in the news of corporations actually punished beyond a fine when the government finds them guilty of wrongdoing. Most of these cases that I see in the news result in companies settling for a fine and no admission of wrongdoing. > > I _want_ to find those counterexamples. I _want_ to be able to rub my hands together and gloat. They apparently just don’t make the media, and you’d think they would. What do you want them to do, send the building to prison? The only thing you can do to a corporation, for the most part, is to fine it (or withhold Federal funds, or revoke licenses, etc., if applicable). Members of corporations who commit criminal acts are prosecuted and if the crime rises to that level, they’re sent to prison. Google Bernie Ebbers or Jeff Skilling or Bernie Madoff. Or Andrew Fastow, Scott Sullivan, Mark Swartz, Joseph Nacchio, Walter Forbes, Kirk Shelton or Conrad Black. Or Sarbanes Oxley. I am honestly dubious that anyone could have made ANY kind of effort (including just paying attention to the news) and concluded that there are no “counter examples” (I would just call them _additional_ examples). I know this doesn’t fit the particular talking point you’re trying to advance, but fraud and embezzlement, shockingly enough, are considered bad shit by those in charge of prosecuting such things, regardless of who does it, not just when ACORN is involved. Huge fines are levied, people go to prison, it hits the papers–all that good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/256 "2011-03-12T14:04:57Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > What do you want them to do, send the building to prison? The only thing you can do to a corporation, for the most part, is to fine it (or withhold Federal funds, or revoke licenses, etc., if applicable). Members of corporations who commit criminal acts are prosecuted and if the crime rises to that level, they’re sent to prison. Google Bernie Ebbers or Jeff Skilling or Bernie Madoff. Or Andrew Fastow, Scott Sullivan, Mark Swartz, Joseph Nacchio, Walter Forbes, Kirk Shelton or Conrad Black. Or Sarbanes Oxley. I am honestly dubious that anyone could have made ANY kind of effort (including just paying attention to the news) and concluded that there are no “counter examples” (I would just call them _additional_ examples). > > I know this doesn’t fit the particular talking point you’re trying to advance, but fraud and embezzlement, shockingly enough, are considered bad shit by those in charge of prosecuting such things, regardless of who does it, not just when ACORN is involved. Huge fines are levied, people go to prison, it hits the papers–all that good stuff. I don’t see the equivalent of what was done to ACORN. And you could easily do the same to a corporation. Deny them the ability to do business. Or simply blacklist them any government contracts. ACORN died, as has been pointed out, because the donation flow ebbed. BP nearly suffered the same fate before governments intervened on its behalf. I’m asking for parity in both the burden of proof AND the punishment levied. Especially when many of these corporations are supported with subsidies with my tax dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/257 "2011-03-12T14:18:32Z")
No, you’re asserting this is so without any evidence. So I’ll ask again, cite? I dion’t need to hear your concerned disappointment again, I’m asking for something to substantiate that this is common place. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/258 "2011-03-12T17:16:13Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > No, you’re asserting this is so without any evidence. So I’ll ask again, cite? I dion’t need to hear your concerned disappointment again, I’m asking for something to substantiate that this is common place. [http://www.legalaffairs.org/printerfriendly.msp?id=434](http://www.legalaffairs.org/printerfriendly.msp?id=434) > [@](#): > > SEC settlements nearly always stipulate that the defendant “neither admits nor denies” the allegations set forth in the SEC’s findings. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/259 "2011-03-13T01:29:48Z")
ACORN would likely have the same opportunity, had it been an SEC settlement. Read your own cite. It does not support the notion that there are privileged corporations, apparently anyone other than ACORN, who get sweetheart deals despite the evidence of egregious malfeasance. It says that the SEC would rather facilitate a quicker settlement than litigate, and it makes no mention of this being a solution available only to evil Republican types. Not to mention it covers only SEC matters. Keep trying. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/260 "2011-03-13T03:04:59Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > ACORN would likely have the same opportunity, had it been an SEC settlement. Read your own cite. It does not support the notion that there are privileged corporations, apparently anyone other than ACORN, who get sweetheart deals despite the evidence of egregious malfeasance. It says that the SEC would rather facilitate a quicker settlement than litigate, and it makes no mention of this being a solution available only to evil Republican types. Not to mention it covers only SEC matters. Keep trying. ACORN didn’t have the opportunity and a corporation would not have been handled in the same way ACORN was handled. If you think some corporations aren’t privileged, we’re not from the same planet and I’ll pass on the “keep trying” bit. It’s moot really. " I am honestly dubious" that you’re engaging in a real attempt to discuss the issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960.md?page=14)