# "Gotcha ya!" video from the conservative noise machine seeks to make NPR look bad **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 8, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960 "2011-03-08T19:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/101 "2011-03-09T16:41:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If ACORN wasnt the victim, who was? ACORN was the victim of embezzlement. ACORN was the perpetrator of the cover-up of the embezzlement. Because this continues to perplex you, I’ll try to make it simpler. Joe is the President of a Bank. One day, Joe’s bank is robbed. Joe’s bank is the VICTIM of a robbery. The robbers entered the bank after hours, though an unlocked door, and then entered the time-lock vault, which was normally kept wedged open by a book because it was easier to deal with that way, and no alarm went off because the bank had stopped paying the alarm company as a budget saving measure. When Joe learns of these facts, he decides to not report the robbery to the police, because he believes that if depositors learn of his bank’s lax approach to security, they will leave his bank. Joe is the PERPETRATOR of a cover-up. Robbery VICTIM. Cover-up PERP. Now, let’s see if you can remember this one this time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/102 "2011-03-09T16:41:04Z")
Incidentally, Starving Artist, the Republicans have gotten so fucking crazy that if Richard Nixon and Teddy Roosevelt came back from the dead they would be damned as liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/103 "2011-03-09T16:43:53Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If I get something stolen out of my garage and don’t call the cops, am I a criminal? No. Unless your garage is a non-profit organization. Then you are obligated to report losses due to theft on your IRS 990. > [@](#): > > It’s pathetic the way you righties try to spin this story as somehow indicative of ACORN itself being corript. They were stolen FROM. It wasn’t their fault. It was “covered up” by the guy who was stealing fom them. This is a fake scandal, and it’s an evasion from the point that O’Keefe faked his videos and cost a lot of innocent people their jobs because of his own fraud and deception. Why doesn’t THAT bother you? No. It’s true that the guy stealing from them did not advertise his crime, but that’s not what’s being referred to by “cover-up.” The cover-up was the failure to disclose the theft when they became aware of it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/104 "2011-03-09T16:44:45Z")
> [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](#): > > Incidentally, Starving Artist, the Republicans have gotten so fucking crazy that if Richard Nixon and Teddy Roosevelt came back from the dead they would be damned as liberals. Because liberals smell like rotting meat and eat human brains. No, wait, that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/105 "2011-03-09T17:08:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. And rather than report the embezzlement, they covered it up. > > That’s why the statement reads, “…the disclosure in June 2008 of an embezzlement **cover-up** …”… You embarass those amongst us who would like to think of you as a reasonable person. This is revisionism, re-writing history to suit your agenda. The embezzlement scandal took place a full year before all of this shit hit the fan. You know this. You also know that that the hue and cry, the screaming conniption fits, were about the child abuse “scandals”. Scandals you know, full well, were utter horseshit. If, as you claim, the defunding effort was inspired by the embezzlement scandals, why did it take so long? And how is it that every major news outlet in the country was misinformed, saying that the defunding was a result of the bogus “scandals”, with hardly so much as a mention to the “embezzlement”? Were they all lying, **Bricker**? In 2008, Boehner was working to defund ACORN, see his statement here: [http://www.speaker.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=104602](http://www.speaker.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=104602) It went nowhere, as you well know. Not until the “scandal” videos, a year later. You want to offer us the proposition that this is merely a coincidence? That what it really was about was bookkeeping issues? Drivel. Shame on you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/106 "2011-03-09T17:30:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > ACORN was the victim of embezzlement. Correct. > [@](#): > > ACORN was the perpetrator of the cover-up of the embezzlement. Incorrect. ACORN, as an institution, covred up nothing. the executive who stole the money did the covering up. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/107 "2011-03-09T17:36:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Incorrect. ACORN, as an institution, covred up nothing. the executive who stole the money did the covering up. [Bullshit:](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/09/us/09embezzle.html?_r=1) > [@](#): > > Acorn chose to treat the embezzlement of nearly $1 million eight years ago as an internal matter and did not even notify its board. > . > . > . > A whistle-blower forced Acorn to disclose the embezzlement, which involved the brother of the organization’s founder, Wade Rathke. The brother, Dale Rathke, embezzled nearly $1 million from Acorn and affiliated charitable organizations in 1999 and 2000, Acorn officials said, but a **small group of executives decided to keep the information from almost all of the group’s board members and not to alert law enforcement**. > > Dale Rathke remained on Acorn’s payroll until a month ago, when disclosure of his theft by foundations and other donors forced the organization to dismiss him. > . > . > . > Wade Rathke said the organization had signed a restitution agreement with his brother in which his family agreed to repay the amount embezzled **in exchange for confidentiality**. Note the dismissal happened in 2008. The embezzlement happened in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/108 "2011-03-09T17:43:22Z")
Followed by an effort to defund ACORN. Which went nowhere. Until Mr. O’Keefe arrived on the scene, then lickety-split, badda-boom, badda-bing, done. You seem to want to insinuate that this is merely a coincidence, without actually saying so. Hoping to preserve a scrap of dignity, trying to imply what you refuse to say. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/109 "2011-03-09T17:43:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You embarass those amongst us who would like to think of you as a reasonable person. This is revisionism, re-writing history to suit your agenda. > > The embezzlement scandal took place a full year before all of this shit hit the fan. You know this. You also know that that the hue and cry, the screaming conniption fits, were about the child abuse “scandals”. Scandals you know, full well, were utter horseshit. > > If, as you claim, the defunding effort was inspired by the embezzlement scandals, why did it take so long? And how is it that every major news outlet in the country was misinformed, saying that the defunding was a result of the bogus “scandals”, with hardly so much as a mention to the “embezzlement”? Were they all lying, **Bricker**? > > In 2008, Boehner was working to defund ACORN, see his statement here: > [http://www.speaker.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=104602](http://www.speaker.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=104602) > > It went nowhere, as you well know. Not until the “scandal” videos, a year later. You want to offer us the proposition that this is merely a coincidence? That what it really was about was bookkeeping issues? > > Drivel. Shame on you. Straw that broke the camel’s back. You’ve got the liberal’s liberal, **Diogenes** , still denying that there even was a cover-up. That’s what the opponents were up against. It took the cumulative effect of the embezzlement cover-up and the subsequent events to gain the momentum necessary to pass the defunding bill. It was a necessary condition, but not a sufficient condition. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/110 "2011-03-09T17:53:16Z")
If it wasn’t a sufficient condition to justify defunding this organization, why was the right so keen to defund it, to the point of committing libel? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/111 "2011-03-09T17:56:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Straw that broke the camel’s back. You’ve got the liberal’s liberal, **Diogenes** , still denying that there even was a cover-up. That’s what the opponents were up against. It took the cumulative effect of the embezzlement cover-up and the subsequent events to gain the momentum necessary to pass the defunding bill. > > It was a necessary condition, but not a sufficient condition. Ah, and “the subsequent events”? Birthday parties? Press releases? What “subsequent events” are you delicately alluding to? These “subsequent events”, they include, but are not limited to, the video scandals? But I take it that you offer the astounding proposition that these “subsequent events” had only a minor role in the defunding, merely the “straw the broke the camels back”? Seriously? With a straight face? You’ll look me right in the monitor, pee on my shoes and tell me its raining? I don’t think you’ll actually do it. I think you will sidle up to it, imply it, suggest it, but I don’t think you’ll actually do it, that last scrap of your integrity won’t let you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/112 "2011-03-09T18:04:49Z")
Let’s be clear about something else as well - the loss of federal funding didn’t do ACORN in. They could only claim in court that about 10% of their income came from federal grants or contracts. However, at the same time all of this was going on private donations to ACORN were collapsing. And this was a harder problem to fix - many liberals on this board who were broadly supportive of ACORN’s goals were becoming leery of donating to them. This is why a comparison to NPR in this case isn’t especially apt - I think NPR would be quite able to line up underwriters and continue their mission if the federal subsidy went away. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/113 "2011-03-09T18:05:53Z")
When we get to Hell, it will always be Pledge Week. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/114 "2011-03-09T18:11:22Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > If it wasn’t a sufficient condition to justify defunding this organization, why was the right so keen to defund it, to the point of committing libel? How is this question relevant to the point under discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/115 "2011-03-09T18:14:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ah, and “the subsequent events”? Birthday parties? Press releases? > > What “subsequent events” are you delicately alluding to? These “subsequent events”, they include, but are not limited to, the video scandals? But I take it that you offer the astounding proposition that these “subsequent events” had only a minor role in the defunding, merely the “straw the broke the camels back”? > > Seriously? With a straight face? You’ll look me right in the monitor, pee on my shoes and tell me its raining? > > I don’t think you’ll actually do it. I think you will sidle up to it, imply it, suggest it, but I don’t think you’ll actually do it, that last scrap of your integrity won’t let you. The latest news is always the most important. But the videos alone would not have caused the defunding bill to pass. All the old, middle, and new scandals were necessary. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/116 "2011-03-09T18:18:32Z")
> [@](#): > > How is this question relevant to the point under discussion? It speaks to motivation, doesn’t it? If ACORN were merely a feckless band of wandering idealist, and having no real impact on political power, then Republicans being shockedshocked at such appalling scandals is untainted and pure. However, if you believe as I do, that the whole point of the operation was to undermine an organization that was effectively challenging Republican grip on power, then, well, not so much. But what do you think, **Bricker**? Was it about power, or morality? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/117 "2011-03-09T18:27:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It speaks to motivation, doesn’t it? If ACORN were merely a feckless band of wandering idealist, and having no real impact on political power, then Republicans being shockedshocked at such appalling scandals is untainted and pure. However, if you believe as I do, that the whole point of the operation was to undermine an organization that was effectively challenging Republican grip on power, then, well, not so much. > > But what do you think, **Bricker**? Was it about power, or morality? The underlying motivation was absolutely to destroy an organization that threatened Republican interests. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with the claim that ACORN covered up embezzlement. They did. If it had been a friend to the GOP, then there would have been a smatterinig of embarrassed throat clearing on the right, not an effort to defund them. But the point was not (until now) what the underlying motive was. The point was that these things happened. They were real. ACORN did things wrongly. Their defunding was a result of doing things wrongly in a situation where they had an enemy waiting for just such an opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/118 "2011-03-09T19:07:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The latest news is always the most important. But the videos alone would not have caused the defunding bill to pass. All the old, middle, and new scandals were necessary. Leaving aside the unfalsifiability of this assertion, do you believe that the bill would have passed _without_ the faked videos? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/119 "2011-03-09T19:11:17Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Let’s be clear about something else as well - the loss of federal funding didn’t do ACORN in. They could only claim in court that about 10% of their income came from federal grants or contracts. > > However, at the same time all of this was going on private donations to ACORN were collapsing. And this was a harder problem to fix - many liberals on this board who were broadly supportive of ACORN’s goals were becoming leery of donating to them. This was a direct result of the (now completely debunked) smear job by O’Keefe. He defamed and damaged the lives of innocent people do earnest and honest work. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/120 "2011-03-09T19:32:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Leaving aside the unfalsifiability of this assertion, do you believe that the bill would have passed _without_ the faked videos? No. As I said, each individual scandal was necessary, but not sufficient. Without the video scandal, people like you would have continued to insist that ACORN was a victim, and never covered up anything, and their obstinate denials would have worked to diffuse the will of Congress. I notice that you have failed to acknowledge your error about the cover-up, but are no longer pushing your interpretation. In **Diogenes** -land, this is usually a sign that you realize you were wrong but are loathe to admit it, and so you seek to reframe the conversation away from your error without ever confronting your error directly. Do you now admit that ACORN covered up the embezzlement? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960.md?page=7)