# "Gotcha ya!" video from the conservative noise machine seeks to make NPR look bad **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 8, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960 "2011-03-08T19:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/121 "2011-03-09T19:41:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How is this question relevant to the point under discussion? The matter of sufficiency and necessity seemed relevant enough for you to bring them up. So: if this embezzlement issue is insufficient to warrant pulling funds, why did the right want ACORN to lose its funding so badly they were moved to commit libel? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/122 "2011-03-09T19:43:23Z")
[NPR CEO Vivian Schiller fired, Ron Schiller loses new job at Aspen Institute.](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/09/npr-president-schiller-resigns/) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/123 "2011-03-09T19:45:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. As I said, each individual scanda was necessary, but not sufficient. Without the video scandal, people like you would have continued to insist that ACORN was a victim, and never covered up anything, and their obstinate denials would have worked to diffuse the will of Congress. There was no video scandal, only some false accusations. > [@](#): > > I notice that you have failed to acknowledge your error about the cover-up, but are no longer pushing your interpretation. In **Diogenes** -land, this is usually a sign that you realize you were wrong but are loathe to admit it, and so you seek to reframe the conversation away from your error without ever confronting your error directly. > > Do you now admit that ACORN covered up the embezzlement? No, because they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/124 "2011-03-09T19:49:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [NPR CEO Vivian Schiller fired, Ron Schiller loses new job at Aspen Institute.](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/09/npr-president-schiller-resigns/) Ron Schiller did not lose his job at the Aspen Institute but told them he had changed his mind about working for them. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/125 "2011-03-09T19:50:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do you now admit that ACORN covered up the embezzlement? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, because they didn’t. Cite? I have already posted my cite to the contrary, but to refresh your recollection: > [@New York Times in 2008](#): > > Acorn chose to treat the embezzlement of nearly $1 million eight years ago as an internal matter and did not even notify its board. > . > . > . > A whistle-blower forced Acorn to disclose the embezzlement, which involved the brother of the organization’s founder, Wade Rathke. The brother, Dale Rathke, embezzled nearly $1 million from Acorn and affiliated charitable organizations in 1999 and 2000, Acorn officials said, but a small group of executives decided to keep the information from almost all of the group’s board members and **not to alert law enforcement.** > > Dale Rathke remained on Acorn’s payroll until a month ago, when disclosure of his theft by foundations and other donors forced the organization to dismiss him. > . > . > . > Wade Rathke said the organization had signed a restitution agreement with his brother in which his family agreed to repay the amount embezzled \*\*in exchange for confidentiality. Seems to me you’re denying the truth of the statements the New York Times printed. To do so, you must have some other evidence to counter their claims. What is it? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/126 "2011-03-09T19:53:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Ron Schiller did not lose his job at the Aspen Institute but told them he had changed his mind about working for them. And I suppose Vivian Schiller didn’t lose her job at NPR, but resigned? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/127 "2011-03-09T19:53:59Z")
“small group of executives decided to keep the information from almost all of the group’s board members and not to alert law enforcement.” A small group of executives kept the information from the Board. That’s not ACORN doing anything, that’s ACORN getting victimized again. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/128 "2011-03-09T19:56:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And I suppose Vivian Schiller didn’t lose her job at NPR, but resigned? There is no indication in the story that Ron Schiller was asked not take the job at Aspen. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/129 "2011-03-09T19:56:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > “small group of executives decided to keep the information from almost all of the group’s board members and not to alert law enforcement.” > > A small group of executives kept the information from the Board. That’s not ACORN doing anything, that’s ACORN getting victimized again. Ahh, I see. And at what point does it become “ACORN,” and not the actions of ACORN executives? Every corporate action arises because employees of the corporation do something to cause it. At what point do you contend that an action like that is imputed to the company as a whole? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/130 "2011-03-09T19:57:11Z")
It’s kind of funny that James O’Keefe is pretending to be outraged that Schiller called teabaggers racist when O’Keefe himself used to be active in organizing white supremacist rallies. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/131 "2011-03-09T19:59:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s kind of funny that James O’Keefe is pretending to be outraged that Schiller called teabaggers racist when O’Keefe himself used to be active in organizing white supremacist rallies. Cite? I know he once attended some gathering like that, but I don’t believe he ever organized any. Did he? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/132 "2011-03-09T19:59:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ahh, I see. > > And at what point does it become “ACORN,” and not the actions of ACORN executives? When it becomes institutional, and not just the shenanigans of a few top exeuctives unbeknownst to the rest of the organization. > [@](#): > > Every corporate action arises because employees of the corporation do something to cause it. At what point do you contend that an action like that is imputed to the company as a whole? When the company as a whole is doing something wrong. Who was victimized by these execs not reporting the embezzlement? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/133 "2011-03-09T20:03:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Cite? I know he once attended some gathering like that, but I don’t believe he ever organized any. Did he? > **[James O'Keefe And The White Supremacists: As Breitbart Runs Screaming For...](https://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/james-okeefe-and-white-supremacists)** > > \[UPDATE below.\] > > James O'Keefe and his boss, Andrew Breitbart, already are having trouble keeping their stories straight on O'Keefe's illegal attemp ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/134 "2011-03-09T20:04:05Z")
My hope is to someday see a whole page without a single readable reply. Way to go guys, keep pluckin that chicken! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/135 "2011-03-09T20:09:27Z")
**Bricker** , you’re own cite shows that it was not ACORN that covered up the embezzlement, but a small group of ACORN executives, acting without the (informed) consent of the board of directors. For a guy who spends as much time parsing meanings as you do, it’s surprising that you won’t concede this point. Face it, you blew it this time. You made your bet, showed your hand, and it’s a loser. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/136 "2011-03-09T20:09:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Correct: the racists learned to talk in code a long time ago. That’s why a large chunk of them keeps saying they think Barack Obama was born in a country he’s visited two or three times in his life. You mean he’s not a native son of the nation of Namibia ??? :eek: Those damned revisionist historians…mucking up The One Truth™… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/137 "2011-03-09T20:10:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [James O'Keefe And The White Supremacists: As Breitbart Runs Screaming For Cover, Bigger Questions Loom | Crooks and Liars](http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/james-okeefe-and-white-supremacists) Even if I were to credit the most damaging statements in that piece as utterly true, here is what was proved: > [@](#): > > “What I told Weigel and what I told him to quote me as saying, is that O’Keefe was involved the same way you would be involved if you went to a party and you put out the cups and stocked the cooler,” Isis told me. “He was helping Marcus Epstein in the execution of the event so I don’t see what the issue is. It was obvious that he was there supporting the event and was involved in its execution.” That’s not organizing. He was involved the same way you’d be involved if you went to a party and you put out the cups and stocked the cooler. And even that’s assuming that the chain of “Isis told me that Weigel told her that Andrew did this…” is valid. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/138 "2011-03-09T20:11:22Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > **Bricker** , you’re own cite shows that it was not ACORN that covered up the embezzlement, but a small group of ACORN executives, acting without the (informed) consent of the board of directors. > > For a guy who spends as much time parsing meanings as you do, it’s surprising that you won’t concede this point. > > Face it, you blew it this time. You made your bet, showed your hand, and it’s a loser. Same question I asked Diogenes: when does it become ACORN instead of ACORN executives? Are you taking the same approach for British Petroleum? It was just a few workers that may have done something wrong, not the company as a whole? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/139 "2011-03-09T20:12:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > When it becomes institutional, and not just the shenanigans of a few top exeuctives unbeknownst to the rest of the organization. > > When the company as a whole is doing something wrong. But the company as a whole has no way of reporting the embezzlement. When you say that BP Oil did something wrong in the Gulf oil spill, you don’t hold them to that standard, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960/140 "2011-03-09T20:13:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Even if I were to credit the most damaging statements in that piece as utterly true, here is what was proved: > > That’s not organizing. He was involved the same way you’d be involved if you went to a party and you put out the cups and stocked the cooler. And even that’s assuming that the chain of “Isis told me that Weigel told her that Andrew did this…” is valid. That is organizing, in my book. Would you put out the milk and cookies at a white supremacist event. Would you man a table of white supremacist literature as O’Keefe was photographed doing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotcha-ya-video-from-the-conservative-noise-machine-seeks-to-make-npr-look-bad/573960.md?page=8)