# Gotham - new season discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 1, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128 "2015-10-01T13:39:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/41 "2015-10-13T16:26:50Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > (snip)The guy playing Jerome does seem to be channeling Jack Nicholson as a full on psycho. > > Oh well, I’m watching it for now. The way I put it was that he was channeling Christian Slater doing Jack Nicholson. I can see why he went that way, it’s really too soon to try Heath Ledger’s Joker. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/42 "2015-10-13T19:35:46Z")
Great security that teamster boss had. Man with two holsters casually walks into office, has time for nice chat before bodyguards even start to react… ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/43 "2015-10-13T20:36:12Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > \ > The only exception being Fish Mooney who never felt right in the show, she seemed a boring distraction to everything else good about the show. > \ I’m very happy to find someone else who feels that way about Fish. First of all … **“FISH” IS SUCH AN INCREDIBLY STUPID AND OFFENSIVE NAME FOR A WOMAN!!!** But another big reason is the acting of Jada Pinkett Smith. When it comes to her acting ability, I never realized this before, but she really is a very poor actor - probably the worst on this show - and that certainly distracts from everything else good about this show. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/44 "2015-10-13T20:41:19Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I’m very happy to find someone else who feels that way about Fish. First of all … **“FISH” IS SUCH AN INCREDIBLY STUPID AND OFFENSIVE NAME FOR A WOMAN!!!** > > But another big reason is the acting of Jada Pinkett Smith. When it comes to her acting ability, I never realized this before, but she really is a very poor actor - probably the worst on this show - and that certainly distracts from everything else good about this show. Oh yes, the insufferable JPS playing the insufferable Fish. To me, Fish is very much an extension of how I’ve always perceived the actress in real life, so you could say she’s perfect for the role. Not going to go so far as to say I want JPS to die, but I’m sure glad Fish did. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/45 "2015-10-13T21:34:29Z")
Charlie Wayne wrote: ““FISH” IS SUCH AN INCREDIBLY STUPID AND OFFENSIVE NAME FOR A WOMAN!!!” But for a guy it’s OK??? (Well, maybe for Abe Vigoda.) ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/46 "2015-10-14T14:38:04Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I’m very happy to find someone else who feels that way about Fish. First of all … **“FISH” IS SUCH AN INCREDIBLY STUPID AND OFFENSIVE NAME FOR A WOMAN!!!** It might have helped if the show had ever given an explanation for how she acquired the nickname. I wonder if it started out similarly to “Penguin” (i.e. as an insult), and she decided to wear it as a badge of honor once she became successful (as Penguin now has). ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/47 "2015-10-14T14:58:41Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I’m a little thrown by Barbara going all psycho. Seems off for Gordon to name his daughter after a psycho ex. My guess? End of a season, big bad has Jim in his sights and is about to shoot him in the head (no elaborate death traps or anything) and at the last, a glimmer of the “real” (boring) Barbara comes out and throws herself in the bullet’s path. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/48 "2015-10-15T22:54:15Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I’m a little thrown by Barbara going all psycho. Seems off for Gordon to name his daughter after a psycho ex. Gordon didn’t name his daughter. She’s biologically his niece so if anything his brother would have named her. > [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > On the other hand, I can’t remember ever seeing Ben McKenzie before and he makes this show a lot better than it would be with just an average actor. I think he is really pretty terrific. Previously he played a rookie cop on SouthLAnd. Before that he was a troubled teen taken in by a lawyer on The OC. Both roles gave him a lot of experience in punching people. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/49 "2015-11-24T16:21:03Z")
Holy shit, Bruce Wayne suddenly became a badass. Big props to David Mazouz for convincing me that Bruce can eventually become Batman. All the kid actors were great this episode. Silver went from scared and pleading to cold and threatening in the blink of an eye. The Bruce-Selina interactions were also good, especially at the end when Bruce told Selina what he whispered to Silver and implied that it was really about her, causing her to become flustered. Flustered Cat is especially endearing. Real smooth, Bruce. Real smooth. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/50 "2015-11-24T17:02:06Z")
Loved last nights episode. I have a major crush on Alfred and it’s only enhanced when he kicks ass. [spoileer] Loved the double cross on Silver [/spoiler], though I did figure it out a few minutes before the reveal, but it didn’t ruin my enjoyment. Are we supposed to suspect Capt. Barnes as a secret baddie? I do not get a good feeling about him. James Frain is awesome as Galavan but it’s hard for me not to think of him as Thomas Cromwell from _The Tudors_. That is when he’s not reminding me of Derwood from _Bewitched_. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/51 "2015-11-25T09:19:24Z")
Anyone know if the monks are connected in any way with the League of Assassins? Or do they just have a similar mission statement/rhetoric? If not, can we have a fight between the League and the monks for the privilege of “cleansing the city in blood”? “Gotham will be cleansed. But it will be at a time of our choosing, not yours.” ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/52 "2015-11-25T13:38:03Z")
And now I see I schmucked up the spoiler code in my last post :smack:. Mods, please fix if you think it’s worth it. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/53 "2015-11-27T02:16:07Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > Anyone know if the monks are connected in any way with the League of Assassins? Or do they just have a similar mission statement/rhetoric? > > If not, can we have a fight between the League and the monks for the privilege of “cleansing the city in blood”? > > “Gotham will be cleansed. But it will be at a time of our choosing, not yours.” I don’t think so, but they are connected to Azrael (who briefly took up the Batman identity after Bane broke Bruce’s back, to less than ideal results), but given the timeframe of this series by all rights he shouldn’t ever figure into the show. Shouldn’t doesn’t mean won’t, though. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/54 "2016-03-25T19:44:30Z")
Didn’t feel like making a new thread for this. Looks like Fall and Spring separated by a big intermission is just how Fox is going now. Mixed feelings about this…more cliffhanger opportunities, give the cast to rest (important given how much action this show has and how many guest stars the regulars need to work with), but it can be easy to forget plot arcs in the first half. Anyhoo…just a bunch of lingering questions: Think we’ll see any of Theo Gallivan’s crew again? None of them were apprehended, and they seemed pretty fond of their leader, or at least saw him as their best option. I doubt they’d go quietly into the night. Why does Mr. Freeze have so many different origins? Honestly, he’s worse than The Joker at this point. I think his inclusion here was a bit of a stretch to begin with (IMO it should’ve been a predecessor a la Jervis Tetch’s dad, maybe make him Nora’s original boyfriend to establish a link to Victor). But I hoped that it’d play out at least somewhat like the original comic, _or_ The Animated Series, _or_ Batman And Robin, _or_ The Brave And The Bold. Was he in the 60’s TV series too? I don’t remember. Does anyone else get a proto-Batman vibe from James Gordon (perhaps as way to explain why he’s so tolerant of the vigilante later in life)? He charges in headfirst, puts his body on the line, never picks his fights, never backs down, and will ally with the most underhanded scumbag imaginable (i.e. Penguin) to achieve his goals. And not only does he always walk away in one piece, you already _know_ he will. That looks to me a lot less than a diligent Blue Knight who calmly worked his way up the ranks than a masked crusader who constantly finds himself an inch from doom. Anyone else wondering where _Zsasz_ is in all this? He’s a killer. Gotham is a city of blood. He’s not going to sit quietly at home and do the laundry just because there’s now a power vacuum. Hell, he should be offering his services to Hugo Strange. The doctor can always use someone who’s good with knives. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/55 "2016-03-26T00:57:25Z")
Well, I guess James Gordon will be cleared and promoted again. What’s next - he gets convicted for killing the president, executed, resurrected and made Commisioner? ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/56 "2016-03-30T04:31:45Z")
I’m actually interested to see just how he digs himself out of this one. The public is against him, Bullock hasn’t pulled up any leads, and Penguin can’t help him anymore. He’s up against the craftiest, most resourceful adversary he’s ever faced. And let’s not forget that Captain Barnes is still in charge (damn, he’s got some staying power!). ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/57 "2016-03-30T12:03:26Z")
Genius casting Paul Reubens as Ostwald Cobblepot’s father. The Penguin’s and Riddler’s stories have gotten more interesting to me than whatever happens to Jim Gordon. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/58 "2016-03-30T12:51:40Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > Genius casting Paul Reubens as Ostwald Cobblepot’s father. The Penguin’s and Riddler’s stories have gotten more interesting to me than whatever happens to Jim Gordon. I agree with all of the above. I’ve never totally warmed up to the JG character, though I think it has as much to do with the actor as the story line. I also don’t care about the character Lee or her and JG’s love story. Penguin and Riddler are always entertaining though. Speaking of the Penguin, in the original story does his father play a major role or was this just a casting stunt (not that one can have too much Paul Reubens). Having never read any of the comic books I always find myself wondering what’s from the original story and also how comic fans feel watching it. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/59 "2016-03-31T01:44:17Z")
I have to say, I wasn’t terribly impressed with the new episodes… until _This Ball of Mud and Meanness_. Both Jerry and Matches Malone alone were some of the best performances on the entire show. This episode feels like it was really _launching_ the story. Aside from which, the episode demonstrates a mastery of symbolism on multiple levels. Jenny foreshadows The Joker with a subdued but creepily comic personality, but at the same time doesn’t simply “act like the Joker”. On the flipside, Malone speaks almost as the voice of Gotham city itself. It’s a very good episode, only brought down the by the necessary but not especially exciting cutaways to other characters. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128/60 "2016-03-31T02:41:25Z")
Overall I enjoy the show. I’m a little put out by what they’re doing with Jim Gordon. He’s worked with Penguin, now he murdered someone, he’s been arrested and convicted of a different murder, he’s working with the old Mob guy. This just gets deeper and deeper in corruption for him. I do find the stunt casting with Paul Rubens amusing - they do look a lot alike. I’m troubled by Penguin’s new found “sanity” - I was sure he was faking and plotting his revenge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-season-discussion/733128.md?page=4)