# Gotham (new show on Fox) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 23, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355 "2014-09-23T18:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/241 "2014-11-04T16:31:55Z")
[QUOTE=yellowjacketcoder;17871857 I liked the expression on Gordon’s face when Szasz ordered 50 cops out of the precinct so he could get take Gordon in. The corruption in that department runs deep. .[/QUOTE] Not sure if its all corruption, much seems to be (legit) fear, fear for their families, etc. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/242 "2014-11-04T16:44:43Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I thought Fish got “killed” before Fish revealed her plans for the audition girls. Weapon girl isn’t long for the world though, unless she turns out to be a bit of a super villain herself. Szasz is a good, creepy villain. Sorry, I meant \*Cobblepot \*got “killed” before we knew what the audition girls were for. What about the police captain, or chief detective, or whatever she is? She wants to do the right thing, but right now she’s not too much more redeemable than the other cops. I assume her character is going to grow. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/243 "2014-11-04T17:07:42Z")
Barbara is the stupidest person on the planet. Jim asks her to do one thing to protect him, and she does the opposite to endanger him. And herself. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/244 "2014-11-04T18:19:31Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > How does Falcone know about weapon girl? Did I miss something? Cobblepot knows a lot of Fish’s plans, but does he know about weapon girl? I thought Fish got “killed” before Fish revealed her plans for the audition girls. Weapon girl isn’t long for the world though, unless she turns out to be a bit of a super villain herself. Szasz is a good, creepy villain. > [@levdrakon](#): > > Sorry, I meant \*Cobblepot \*got “killed” before we knew what the audition girls were for. Falcone knows that Fish is trying to unseat him by having him killed from Penguin. He’s also very smart and wise in the ways of the mob. When a pretty young thing that just happens to like every little thing he likes walks by and seems happy to go be his servant, he probably put two and two together. I imagine nobody gets to work at the Falcone mansion without being thoroughly vetted, which probably turned up her association with Fish. Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. > [@levdrakon](#): > > What about the police captain, or chief detective, or whatever she is? She wants to do the right thing, but right now she’s not too much more redeemable than the other cops. I assume her character is going to grow. I agree, I think she wants to see the city get cleaned up and knows a lot of what’s happening is wrong, but she’s also a realist with the amount she can get done. Plus she has a family that she doesn’t want to see get turned into dog food the slow way. > [@levdrakon](#): > > Not sure what to think about Barbara. At first I was thinking, “see, Ms. Nosy? This is what you get when you know too much.” OTOH, she’s very brave and sticks to what she thinks is right, which helps Gordon I guess. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Barbara is the stupidest person on the planet. Jim asks her to do one thing to protect him, and she does the opposite to endanger him. And herself. I think Barbara suffers from a massive case of spoiled rich girl syndrome. She’s never been turned down for anything in her life, so when Gordon keeps secrets, she way overreacts. When Montoya insinuates things about her man, she overreacts. When her boyfriend decides to take on the mob solo, she decides to get what she wants the same way she has for years - she’ll ask nicely. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/245 "2014-11-04T18:28:36Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Falcone knows that Fish is trying to unseat him by having him killed from Penguin. He’s also very smart and wise in the ways of the mob. When a pretty young thing that just happens to like every little thing he likes walks by and seems happy to go be his servant, he probably put two and two together. I imagine nobody gets to work at the Falcone mansion without being thoroughly vetted, which probably turned up her association with Fish. Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. True. His enemies think he’s getting old and dumb, but he didn’t get where he is by being dumb, and some people get older and wiser, not old and washed up and dumb. Let’s see, Falcone accepted a “toxic waste dump” in Arkham as part of the deal. We all know what happens as a result of toxic waste accidents in Gotham, don’t we? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/246 "2014-11-04T18:41:43Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Let’s see, Falcone accepted a “toxic waste dump” in Arkham as part of the deal. We all know what happens as a result of toxic waste accidents in Gotham, don’t we? I got the impression that he was (at least partially) doing it as a gesture to put Fish in her place (i.e. “see how little I care about your grievance with Cobblepot”). ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/247 "2014-11-04T18:54:59Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I got the impression that he was (at least partially) doing it as a gesture to put Fish in her place (i.e. “see how little I care about your grievance with Cobblepot”). Absolutely! But we still know what’s going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/248 "2014-11-04T19:11:48Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I got the impression that he was (at least partially) doing it as a gesture to put Fish in her place (i.e. “see how little I care about your grievance with Cobblepot”). I read it the same way. If Maroni had been stupid enough to offer up the warehouse, eh, he’ll take it. But really, any concession to keep the peace was enough. And if it’s a really crappy concession, then he both satisfies Falcone and tells Fish to shove it. Which he’s been doing a lot. Which Fish hates. Which Falcone loves. I really like Falcone, except for the whole mobster thing. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/249 "2014-11-04T20:05:53Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > We all know what happens as a result of toxic waste accidents in Gotham, don’t we? Nothing that doesn’t happen anywhere else. (Joker’s accident was at a chemical plant, if that’s what you’re getting at.) ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/250 "2014-11-04T20:18:57Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > Nothing that doesn’t happen anywhere else. > > (Joker’s accident was at a chemical plant, if that’s what you’re getting at.) Yes, that’s what I’m getting at. Do you think nothing is going to happen in the “toxic waste dump” except some politics between mobsters? Maybe Falcone will superfund it into a nice city park. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/251 "2014-11-04T20:58:17Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Do you think nothing is going to happen in the “toxic waste dump” except some politics between mobsters? It’s a lot more likely than Falcone turning it into a chemical plant at some point in the next 15 years so that Bruce can chase somebody into it. Because, again, Joker is associated with a _chemical plant_, not a toxic waste dump. The closest any of Batman’s rogues come to association with toxic waste dumps is Poison Ivy occasionally going after people who dump toxic waste (legally and safely or otherwise). What’s likely going to happen with the dump is between Falcone, Maroni, the corrupt Gotham government, and maybe Wayne Enterprises, if they happen to have a piece of it or the surrounding land - or if Bruce and Alfred successfully get the board cleaned up and they make another attempt to turn Arkham into something good for the city. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/252 "2014-11-04T21:11:02Z")
No way. Just because one of Batman’s future villains, and innumerable other heroes and villains, got their start in a “chemical factory mishap” in no way excludes someone in Gotham, now, gaining super powers in a toxic waste dump, in Arkham of all places! ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/253 "2014-11-04T21:29:14Z")
This was a good episode. You can feel the pieces falling into place. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/254 "2014-11-04T21:36:18Z")
And Gordon wears knit boxers. Good guy. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/255 "2014-11-04T22:38:07Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > No way. Just because one of Batman’s future villains, and innumerable other heroes and villains, got their start in a “chemical factory mishap” in no way excludes someone in Gotham, now, gaining super powers in a toxic waste dump, in Arkham of all places! What you said: > [@](#): > > We all know what happens as a result of toxic waste accidents in Gotham, don’t we? What I said: > [@](#): > > Nothing that doesn’t happen anywhere else. Is it POSSIBLE that the toxic waste dump might play into the origin of a new villain, or the moving up of some villain’s origin (by over a decade)? Yeah, sure, it’s possible. It would be, if not a first, at least a break from the pattern established by previous canons, but it’s possible. But that’s not what you said, and not what I was replying to. There is no pattern of toxic waste dumps in Gotham having anything significant happen in them that is any different than happens to them in the real world (except, perhaps, for a slightly increased incidence of leakage, and the resultant negative effects), nor even a single significant case of it in any prior canons. It may have happened, but if so it’s a villain on the order of Doodlebug. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/256 "2014-11-04T23:00:41Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Szasz is a good, creepy villain. I find that a bit questionable, myself. Also, if they’re going to play Cobblepot as this master schemer, it’d probably help if he was a bit less obviously snively. His offer to Falcone didn’t strike me as especially enticing. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/257 "2014-11-05T00:49:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Also, if they’re going to play Cobblepot as this master schemer, it’d probably help if he was a bit less obviously snively. His offer to Falcone didn’t strike me as especially enticing. He’s young. Empires have to start somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/258 "2014-11-05T01:02:48Z")
I think this episode had the worst “random stop by Bruce Wayne’s house” yet. They really need to find something active for Bruce and Alfred to do. Shoehorning them into every episode just to get talked at is getting painful. They gestured in the direction of having Bruce go all “boy detective” earlier, I hope they pursue that angle a little more. And Barbara was the worst even before she went all damsel in distress. Still liking the show despite those complaints though. They just need to find something for the more extraneous characters to do (Bruce, Catwoman, Alfred) or kill them off (Barbara). > [@Bryan](#): > > Also, if they’re going to play Cobblepot as this master schemer, it’d probably help if he was a bit less obviously snively. His offer to Falcone didn’t strike me as especially enticing. Seemed like a good deal to me. Falcone got information, and would either get a snitch on the other side or get to have Penguin killed to keep Fishmoony happy. Penguin got a chance to live, which is kinda less enticing, but probably the best he could hope for given the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/259 "2014-11-05T01:34:12Z")
I fully expected one of those chickens to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/260 "2014-11-05T02:51:41Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Seemed like a good deal to me. Falcone got information, and would either get a snitch on the other side or get to have Penguin killed to keep Fishmoony happy. Penguin got a chance to live, which is kinda less enticing, but probably the best he could hope for given the circumstances. Well, it was that “I’ll work my way up in the Maroni organization” that struck me as particularly implausible, like infiltrating a criminal organization is so easy to do. Then again, it _was_ pretty easy, wasn’t it? I’m starting to sense that Gotham’s criminals, whether or not they are cowardly and superstitious, are kinda dumb. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355.md?page=14)