# Gotham (new show on Fox) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 23, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355 "2014-09-23T18:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/281 "2014-11-11T01:57:16Z")
Alfred Pennyworth! You are _not_ helping that child learn to deal with conflict in a healthy manner! Continuing tally of established villains in Gotham: The Black Mask, The Crime Doctor (maybe…I didn’t catch his name, but he looks like the Crime Doctor and…is, in fact a criminal doctor), Hush. Somehow Hush is even creepier than the comic book version. Bullock seems to be getting clean a lot faster than I expected him to. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/282 "2014-11-11T02:09:14Z")
Also, between Penguin and his mom, and Fish and her ‘weapon’ (I am blanking on her name v\_v), I begin to suspect someone on Gotham’s writing staff has an incest kink… ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/283 "2014-11-11T05:16:48Z")
Oh great. As soon as I saw Bruce going to school I figured half the students there will be future villains. Alfred’s going to be just as responsible for turning Bruce into a vigilante as Bruce himself. Barbara’s going down hill fast. What kind of idiot hands Fish a sharp pointy object and then sits within stabbing range? I expected Cobblepot to lose an eye. Cobblepot’s mom is so weird, but entertaining. Fish’s mom, I assume that was her mom, seems okay so far. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/284 "2014-11-11T12:40:49Z")
Well, I suppose if they can keep up this level of insanity with any it being believable, Gotham could be a fun ride. The contrast in what was said about the Waynes and the setup for someone to fix it all does seem to work. As an aside, for those that know, this must be what drow society is like! (My wife actually said that, which surprised me.) It’s chaotic, with shifting lives of allegiance and yet somehow continues to function. ---
**Author:** ![Lips\_Obsession](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@Lips\_Obsession](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lips_Obsession)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/285 "2014-11-11T15:49:46Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Cobblepot’s mom is so weird, but entertaining. Is it just me or does Cobblepot’s mom remind anyone else of Simka (Latka’s wife on “Taxi”)??? ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/286 "2014-11-11T16:05:16Z")
> [@Lips\_Obsession](#): > > Is it just me or does Cobblepot’s mom remind anyone else of Simka (Latka’s wife on “Taxi”)??? Is this a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/287 "2014-11-11T16:08:58Z")
> [@Lips\_Obsession](#): > > Is it just me or does Cobblepot’s mom remind anyone else of Simka (Latka’s wife on “Taxi”)??? Yeah, Carol Kane. I keep waiting for her to pick up a toaster and smack Cobblepot with it, like the Ghost of Christmas Present in _Scrooged_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/288 "2014-11-11T19:04:42Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > Alfred Pennyworth! You are _not_ helping that child learn to deal with conflict in a healthy manner! As far as I can tell, he didn’t actually break the wristwatch. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/289 "2014-11-12T05:11:12Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > Alfred Pennyworth! You are _not_ helping that child learn to deal with conflict in a healthy manner! I like how weird Alfred and Bruce’s relationship is. The whole idea of being raised by your butler is pretty bizarre. The fact that Alfred’s child-rearing technique is pretty close to how Emperor Palpatine trains apprentices just adds to the weirdness. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/290 "2014-11-12T15:37:30Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Yeah, Carol Kane. I keep waiting for her to pick up a toaster and smack Cobblepot with it, like the Ghost of Christmas Present in _Scrooged_. Ditto. I know she keeps playing the same character over and over, but she is wonderful at it. I love her. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/291 "2014-11-12T23:16:05Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Fish’s mom, I assume that was her mom, seems okay so far. Wait, wasn’t Fish telling Liza the story of her mother getting murdered by one of her “companions” while the old lady was on stage? Or were we meant to believe the story was a lie? Or was I not listening closely enough? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/292 "2014-11-12T23:22:48Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Wait, wasn’t Fish telling Liza the story of her mother getting murdered by one of her “companions” while the old lady was on stage? Or were we meant to believe the story was a lie? Or was I not listening closely enough? Yes, and the older lady came up to Fish later at the bar and said “I heard you telling stories to that girl” or some such. I figure Fish is just telling “the weapon” what she needs to hear to motivate her. “I’ll never let a man control me again!” ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/293 "2014-11-12T23:24:47Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Wait, wasn’t Fish telling Liza the story of her mother getting murdered by one of her “companions” while the old lady was on stage? Or were we meant to believe the story was a lie? Or was I not listening closely enough? After Fish told the story, and Liza left, the singer (who I’m also assuming is her mother - because of this exchange) walks over. \ ‘Did I hear you telling that girl stories?’ \ ‘A lie with a core of truth (something something…I can’t remember the rest of the line, but that’s the important bit).’ So, yeah, the story Fish told was a lie, and the obvious direction it was a lie in was the death of her mother. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/294 "2014-11-12T23:43:02Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Wait, wasn’t Fish telling Liza the story of her mother getting murdered by one of her “companions” while the old lady was on stage? Or were we meant to believe the story was a lie? Or was I not listening closely enough? Is anyone else confused about this “club”? They seem to often have 3-4 slightly scantily clad dancers walking listlessly around the stage, and no customers.😕 ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/295 "2014-11-13T00:10:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Is anyone else confused about this “club”? They seem to often have 3-4 slightly scantily clad dancers walking listlessly around the stage, and no customers.😕 It’s a mob-front. They presumably don’t really care how much business it does. Ditto for whatshisfaces restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/296 "2014-11-13T00:15:02Z")
I thought the whole joke was that she told a “Fish tale,” as it were. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/297 "2014-11-13T00:26:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Is anyone else confused about this “club”? They seem to often have 3-4 slightly scantily clad dancers walking listlessly around the stage, and no customers.😕 It’s her base of operations and as much a real club as Gordon Ramsey’s Hell’s Kitchen. It’s also normal to have auditions and rehearsals during the day. Mom probably doesn’t really want to know why her child is suspiciously successful. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/298 "2014-11-13T02:35:58Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > As far as I can tell, he didn’t actually break the wristwatch. Gives a licking, but keeps on ticking. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/299 "2014-11-13T13:05:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Is anyone else confused about this “club”? They seem to often have 3-4 slightly scantily clad dancers walking listlessly around the stage, and no customers.😕 They have customers at night - there was the time Fish kicked everyone out after Falcone had her boytoy beaten. Most of the time we go to the club, it’s midafternoon, when nobody would be in a club anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/300 "2014-11-14T23:11:14Z")
First: The empty club question. A lot of mobs have “social clubs” and such as there business HQ. Regular people don’t go there. They have a license, sell drinks to “members”, etc. But not a lot of clientele. Anyway… Been feeling off so I’ve finally caught up while recuperating. Been avoiding this thread until now. Background: Silver Age DC comics kid. Lot of Batman’s in the basement. Liked the Keaton Batman movies. In particular loved _Batman Returns_. Not a fan of the recent batch. _TDK_ was just full of stupid and I gave up on them. Sometimes a good show, sometimes not. E.g., _The Mask_ was dreadful. While _Selina Kyle_ was good. Speaking of which. For me, this is the Selina Kyle show. When she is in it, it’s good. When she isn’t, not so much. And when Bruce Wayne appears … boring as hell. What does it say about a Batman franchise when the worst character is Bruce Wayne (and there is no Batman to contrast with)? This little useless twerp isn’t going to get more interesting after some boxing lessons from Alfred. The actress who plays Selina Kyle is of course a dead ringer for a young Michelle Pfeiffer. Which is a very nice touch. I keep getting distracted by the context. Sure, there have been cities that have functioned to a degree despite widespread police corruption. Such as documented by Frank Serpico in NYC. But not for any really large city at this level of complete incompetence. Gotham would have been invaded by the National Guard or the Feds and taken over by now. It’s just not realistic to have a situation this bad. Clearly this show has the biggest cast bloat of anything I’ve seen. It just barely gets by. They should have trimmed a lot of the secondary proto-super villians for now. Spread them out. Give them a story arc. Right now it’s the Penguin story arc. Do the Riddler, etc. later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355.md?page=16)