# Gotham (new show on Fox) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 23, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355 "2014-09-23T18:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/341 "2014-11-26T18:37:34Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Is this the first time in anything reasonably canonical that we’ve seen ANY second staff person at Wayne Manor? I can’t think of a prior example. Does Aunt Harriet count? It was like it was her JOB to be annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/342 "2014-11-26T18:51:25Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > A gardener that, one presumes, Bruce and Alfred knew and trusted, maybe even liked. But hey, all’s well that ends well, I guess. Bruce is safe, and Selina even returned the jewelry! We can laugh about it now! …Too bad about ol’ Jerry, though… What puzzled me was that they killed him and then appeared to be slicing him open like an autopsy subject… just so Ms. Kickypants could dab her fingers in his blood? Okay, kinky/weird/brutal, but it implies something much worse and made no sense unless something was cut from the script after filming the scene. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/343 "2014-11-26T18:58:37Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > A gardener that, one presumes, Bruce and Alfred knew and trusted, maybe even liked. But hey, all’s well that ends well, I guess. Bruce is safe, and Selina even returned the jewelry! We can laugh about it now! …Too bad about ol’ Jerry, though… And there was no reason for the assassin to kill him. In fact there was much better reason for the assassin to kill Jim. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/344 "2014-11-26T19:37:02Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > A gardener that, one presumes, Bruce and Alfred knew and trusted, maybe even liked. But hey, all’s well that ends well, I guess. Bruce is safe, and Selina even returned the jewelry! We can laugh about it now! …Too bad about ol’ Jerry, though… That gardener looked kinda buff. I wonder if he wasn’t also a security guard. At any rate, it was stupid to slice him open just for the sake of showing us how evil the assassin is, and then later the assassin is letting people live because they aren’t on her contract. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/345 "2014-11-26T19:57:16Z")
Ivy reminded me of Jan Brady in the parody Brady Bunch movies. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/346 "2014-11-27T01:55:44Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > No, as he was careful to point out, he is a butler, which is the head of all the household staff (except sometimes cooks). If his sole purpose was to take care of Bruce, he’d be a valet - which he haughtily dimissed. A shout out to Jeeves and Wooster? ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/347 "2014-11-28T04:58:58Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > The “cat-like” posing and other mannerisms that have been a hallmark of every live action Catwoman are even more ridiculous when done by a little girl. But, forgive me, I can’t help wishing that Camren Bicondova was about 16 years older. She’s just the prettiest little thing. (Sorry, I have this thing for Russian/Eastern European girls.) ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/348 "2014-11-28T05:01:46Z")
But I like Alfred in this one. He know when to sling cash, and when to shoot the fuck out of somebody. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/349 "2014-11-28T08:16:08Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > What puzzled me was that they killed him and then appeared to be slicing him open like an autopsy subject… just so Ms. Kickypants could dab her fingers in his blood? Okay, kinky/weird/brutal, but it implies something much worse and made no sense unless something was cut from the script after filming the scene. Was she meant to be Talia Al Ghul? (sp?) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/350 "2014-11-28T11:56:47Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > But I like Alfred in this one. He know when to sling cash, and when to shoot the fuck out of somebody. “You see, Master Bruce, you have to know when to hold them; know when to fold them; and know when to walk away, and know when to run – and you never count your money when you’re sitting at the table; there’ll be time enough for counting, boy, when you’ve shot the fuck out of somebody.” ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/351 "2014-11-28T16:05:43Z")
> [@Cinnamon\_Imp](#): > > Was she meant to be Talia Al Ghul? (sp?) I thought “maybe” - the looks, the costumes, the vague “League of Shadows” implications, and the accent - but if any of that is what the writers intended, she’d be more positioned to be Talia’s mother. Very inept presentation overall. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/352 "2014-11-28T17:06:31Z")
Think they’ve realized they should have made Bruce be about 17 yet? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/353 "2014-11-28T17:10:22Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > Think they’ve realized they should have made Bruce be about 17 yet? If the show gets renewed, maybe they’ll consider doing a fast forward. Then it would just be Smallville though. I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/354 "2014-11-28T17:11:18Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > Think they’ve realized they should have made Bruce be about 17 yet? If they get a second season, they could always do a time -jump and age him up. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/355 "2014-11-28T18:42:39Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > Think they’ve realized they should have made Bruce be about 17 yet? I don’t want this to be a ‘becoming Batman’ show. In fact, before it aired, I was hoping there’d barely be any Bruce in it at all. An older Bruce jumping around Gotham in dark sweats is exactly what I \*don’t \*want to see. The female assassin is a meant to be Copperhead, a South American assassin from one of the recent Batman video games. [![](http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140413161850/arkhamcity/images/0/07/Copperhead_(6).png) ](http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140413161850/arkhamcity/images/0/07/Copperhead_(6).png) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/356 "2014-11-28T18:49:28Z")
The problem with most child actors is that they rapidly age out of the role - look at Carl on _Walking Dead_; Chandler Riggs has gotten far older than the character and they can barely conceal it. (Aside: I think he’s headed for major hunk status in a few more years, a rarity for child actors.) The solution with _Gotham_ might be to let Bruce age naturally, or even force the character’s age a little (easier to do than retard it), with maybe a year or so jump between seasons. End the series after five or six years right about where _Batman Begins_ takes up. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/357 "2014-11-28T19:00:57Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > I don’t want this to be a ‘becoming Batman’ show. In fact, before it aired, I was hoping there’d barely be any Bruce in it at all. An older Bruce jumping around Gotham in dark sweats is exactly what I \*don’t \*want to see. > > The female assassin is a meant to be Copperhead, a South American assassin from one of the recent Batman video games. > > [http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/\_\_cb20140413161850/arkhamcity/images/0/07/Copperhead\_(6).png](http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140413161850/arkhamcity/images/0/07/Copperhead_(6).png) Amen. I was hoping it really would be about Gordon and his really screwed up city, not\* The Adventures of Bat Boy & Cat Girl.\* I was curious what Copperhead’s schtick was. Was she strangling or injecting with something? I’m guessing she envenomates her foes? It wasn’t clear. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/358 "2014-11-28T19:05:46Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Amen. I was hoping it really would be about Gordon and his really screwed up city, not\* The Adventures of Bat Boy & Cat Girl.\* I think they’re still trying to find the balance, but I get the feeling it’s meant to be more focused on Gordon than it has been. They do have to establish Bruce and Alfred as characters and are limited by the predestined conclusion, so… That said, I agree 100%. If it is going to be _PreTeen Titans_, let it die. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/359 "2014-11-28T22:47:12Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > The problem with most child actors is that they rapidly age out of the role - look at Carl on _Walking Dead_; Chandler Riggs has gotten far older than the character and they can barely conceal it. (Aside: I think he’s headed for major hunk status in a few more years, a rarity for child actors.) > > The solution with _Gotham_ might be to let Bruce age naturally, or even force the character’s age a little (easier to do than retard it), with maybe a year or so jump between seasons. End the series after five or six years right about where _Batman Begins_ takes up. I’m also hoping this is the tack they take. It helps that David Mazouz is not your typical adorable moppet. He carries “troubled weird kid” very well. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/360 "2014-11-29T00:52:35Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > I’m also hoping this is the tack they take. It helps that David Mazouz is not your typical adorable moppet. He carries “troubled weird kid” very well. I looked them up. David will soon be 14, and Cat Girl will soon be 16. Shouldn’t take long to age them up if that’s what they want to do. At what age does Batman become Batman? I always figured it was in his 30’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355.md?page=19)