# Gotham (new show on Fox) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 23, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355 "2014-09-23T18:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/21 "2014-09-23T22:57:45Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Costumes, super-hero quips, derring-do, outlandish criminal plots, that sort of thing. Compare _ **Gotham** _ to Adam West’s _ **Batman** _, and you’ll see what I mean. Well, yeah. It’s not camp. But it’s far more comic booky than say Agents of SHIELD. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/22 "2014-09-23T23:06:54Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Well, yeah. It’s not camp. > But it’s far more comic booky than say Agents of SHIELD. Have never watched that show, so I can’t comment. So far, IMHO, _ **Gotham** _ requires just a _bit_ more suspension of disbelief than other, run-of-the-mill cop shows, simply because we already know how the main characters are going to turn out. Yes, it’s _based_ on a comic book, but it’s still pretty damned dark and realistic. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/23 "2014-09-23T23:14:48Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > After thinking about it, I decided that was one of the most interesting things about the show so far. Whether intentional or just coincidental, it ties in nicely with the old gripe/observation of how many people wouldn’t have been murdered if Batman would just kill the Joker (or whatever other villain) rather than apprehending him just so he can break out and kill again. Another thing that was largely underplayed or not examined at all in the versions I’m familiar with was how warped the criminals themselves must have been. I’m all for dwelling on the absolute dark side of Penguin, Riddler, Joker, et al., and seeing how they came to be what they are. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/24 "2014-09-23T23:23:21Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …you didn’t find this comic-booky? > > Well, although she didn’t talk, we saw young Catwoman. > Lots of rumors that the bad stand-up comedian may be the guy who eventually becomes the Joker. It’s my understanding that there will be several characters who might be the Joker, and not one character who is definitely the Joker. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/25 "2014-09-23T23:26:20Z")
It’s interesting that Renee Montoya and Barbara Kean apparently have a former sexual relationship. My favorite line was from Falcone: “You can’t have organized crime without law and order.” ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/26 "2014-09-23T23:40:28Z")
Comics Montoya would be younger than Bruce, but I’m glad to see her anyway. I don’t want to see any Dick Grayson unless he’s an infant. And no Bruce dressing up and stalking the nights. If they could sneak in some shots of young Bruce reading _The Shadow_ comics or some such that would be a nice nod. I was surprised Bruce didn’t mention _Zorro_ as the movie they were watching. Hopefully they’ll keep the show at least somewhat realistic. Obviously, not completely, I mean it is Batman. I did notice they made the kid VERY observant for someone his age that had just seen his parents murdered. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/27 "2014-09-23T23:48:58Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > Comics Montoya would be younger than Bruce, but I’m glad to see her anyway. I don’t want to see any Dick Grayson unless he’s an infant. Heh. Can you imagine them going the Montoya route with Dick Grayson, making _him_ the athletic vigilante looking to mentor an impressionable sidekick? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/28 "2014-09-23T23:54:03Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > It’s interesting that Renee Montoya and Barbara Kean apparently have a former sexual relationship. No, it’s staggeringly dull in an era where every drama has to have a lesbian relationship shoehorned in somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/29 "2014-09-24T00:32:22Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > No, it’s staggeringly dull in an era where every drama has to have a lesbian relationship shoehorned in somewhere. Agreed. The way they went about it was pretty bad too, trying act like they wanted it to be subtle but only succeeding in being quite hamfisted. mmm… ham fists… ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/30 "2014-09-24T01:23:11Z")
I think the comedian is a Red Herring. He won’t become the Joker. Something else that I found interesting was his Girlfriend being named Barbara since we all know that will be his future daughter’s name. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/31 "2014-09-24T01:50:12Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I think the comedian is a Red Herring. He won’t become the Joker. > > Something else that I found interesting was his Girlfriend being named Barbara since we all know that will be his future daughter’s name. No, no, no. The Comedian is Eddie Blake. Red Herring is that kid from Scooby Doo. 😃 sorry I’m hoping not to see The Joker. No back-story, no reveal whatsoever. I won’t mind teasers as long as that don’t go anywhere or become canon. There’s so much Bat-history it’s difficult to guess what bring up and what to wait and see. I believe Babs mother was also a Barbara though the only Gordon wife I can think of for sure is Sarah. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/32 "2014-09-24T01:54:11Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Heh. Can you imagine them going the Montoya route with Dick Grayson, making _him_ the athletic vigilante looking to mentor an impressionable sidekick? ☹ I hope not. The Charlie/Renee plot in 52 was one that made me really sad. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/33 "2014-09-24T02:19:19Z")
That did not knock my socks off. I haven’t seen a premiere yet this season that has. I think I’m being spoiled by my steady diet of unparalleled excellence on Netflix. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/34 "2014-09-24T02:35:00Z")
I thought it was excellently done. The best thing is that you knew absolutely nothing about the Batman mythos, it was just ass good. Oh, sure, the fans got tossed a lot of bones, but if you, say, didn’t know who Ed Nigma was, it didn’lt matter. I seem to remember Bullock as a character in **Batman: Year One.** I also like the fact that it didn’t spend time with exposition; it started _in medias res_ and didn’t waste a lot of time explaining things.I also like the fact that Gordon had a strong moral compass. It was clearly better than the premiere of **Agents of Shield** last year. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/35 "2014-09-24T03:01:11Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I think the comedian is a Red Herring. He won’t become the Joker. > > Something else that I found interesting was his Girlfriend being named Barbara since we all know that will be his future daughter’s name. I’d lay some money that Barbara doesn’t survive the series. Gordon might not even get married during it. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/36 "2014-09-24T03:08:04Z")
I greatly enjoyed it. Perhaps I’m easily amused. 🙂 The first episode makes it looks like the story will be seasonal as opposed to episodic. I’m ok with that. I was a little worried that it would be episodic which I don’t think would work as well. I don’t want a police show with Gordon solving a crime every week. That being said I hope things move along at a zippy pace. What often kills these types of shows is when it draaaaaaaags on. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/37 "2014-09-24T03:12:43Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I’d lay some money that Barbara doesn’t survive the series. Gordon might not even get married during it. Indeed, I can easily see him naming his daughter after his first love, killed because he wasn’t good enough protect her or something else suitably white knight-like. I have to agree that it’s trying too hard to shoehorn everything in. We got half a dozen bat-characters in the first episode? slow it down a little guys. Plus, it’s so grimdark that the only thing separating it from a Games Workshop tabletop adventure is the power armor. My wife at one point got annoyed with me and said “Are you going to keep saying ‘How could you say something so stupid?!’ after every line they give?” Which I think sums it up for me, there were a lot of characters that are supposed to be presented as somewhat intelligent that carry the idiot ball around a lot. I’ll probably watch a few more episodes, but right now it’s a ham-sandwich with about 23 pounds of ham in it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/38 "2014-09-24T03:24:19Z")
What kind of police detective tells a kid, “Hey that guy I killed because I _thought_ he killed your parents? Turns out he didn’t really kill your parents. And I don’t know who did.” Completely inappropriate conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/39 "2014-09-24T03:27:25Z")
No equivocation at all, I loved every minute of it. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/40 "2014-09-24T04:02:52Z")
Did anyone else think that Gordon looked like a young Bud White? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355.md?page=3)