# Gotham (new show on Fox) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 23, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355 "2014-09-23T18:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/421 "2015-02-17T21:40:16Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > Fish seems to be very much a love-or-hate character. I’m squarely on the ‘love’ side. > > Agreed on Gordon’s romantic life, though. I’m especially annoyed by Dr. Thompkins. If they desperately wanted to introduce that ditzy, freewheeling, bamboozled-by-a-psychic girlfriend for Gordon, then don’t ask me to believe her as an accomplished woman of science. And don’t ask me to believe that the city’s Medical Examiner doesn’t know how to compartmentalize her love life and be a professional at work. > > Too early for Dick Grayson to be alive. Gordon’s inspirational speech about settling a century-old feud convinced his parents to get engaged. Agreed. I can’t tell if it’s the story, script, direction or what. Something just doesn’t sit right. She puts me in mind of a poor man’s Teri Hatcher. As for Dick G., how much younger is he than Batman? I’ve never read the comic books and most of my knowledge comes from the Adam West years, where Dick didn’t seem \*that \*much younger, though that may have just been poor casting. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/422 "2015-02-17T23:25:59Z")
In _Gotham_… …Jim Gordon’s new girlfriend is Lee, …his partner is Harvey, …and his nemesis/nuisance/wannabe buddy is Oswald. I realize that these three characters have existed in the comics for decades, but I’ve never noticed their names juxtaposed like this before. (I don’t think I’ve ever seen Leslie Thompkins called “Lee” before, for that matter.) ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/423 "2015-02-18T03:27:03Z")
How old is Bruce right now in this show? I’d wag Bruce is maybe 15 years older than Robin, so he could be born next season maybe. IMDb says David (pronounced “Dah-veed”) Mazouz was 13 in Feb. of last year, so I guess he’s 14 now or so. When does Batman adopt him? Does he adopt him and raise him for a few years before the side-kicking starts, or does he adopt him and immediately train him? Lee Harvey Oswald. Works for me. You have to stick Fish in there, so it’s Lee Harvey Oswald-Mooney I think. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/424 "2015-02-18T03:43:39Z")
What, everyone was too distracted by the Graysons to notice who else the story framed in? (At least the second contender for the role, but probably the ‘real’ one given the setup. Nicely done, though.) We’ll know more in the next episode… “Red Hood.” What gobsmacked me was how much the writers lifted from _Carnivale_ - a snake handler who looked a lot like Adrienne Barbeau, with an oddball son, and (slight mashup) named Lilah, who was the lover of an old, gray-haired blind seer with an odd accent. Gad, if they’d only gotten Patrick Bachau to play that role… Did anyone else notice that “THFC,” which Gordon instantly translated as “The Hell Fire Club,” could have also stood for “The Haney Family Circus”? (Haney? Haley? Hale?) - which appeared on a banner in the background of the circus. A lot of weirdness and electricity in this one. The whole situation Fish is in is so spooky and eerie it doesn’t seem like part of the same show. I wonder how it’s going to work out. Also… if those five guys could kick someone to death in ten seconds, what was stopping them, and the rest of the cage crew, from overwhelming the five whole thugs holding them there? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/425 "2015-02-18T03:56:29Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > What, everyone was too distracted by the Graysons to notice who else the story framed in? (At least the second contender for the role, but probably the ‘real’ one given the setup. Nicely done, though.) We’ll know more in the next episode… “Red Hood.” The Joker? The son was definitely channeling the Joker. “Did your mother have boyfriends?” “No. She had lovers and sex partners.” ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/426 "2015-02-18T12:28:12Z")
I got the impression that one of the writers must be a Terry Pratchett fan, when Jim made his remark about not liking folk dancing. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/427 "2015-02-18T13:44:36Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > A lot of weirdness and electricity in this one. The whole situation Fish is in is so spooky and eerie it doesn’t seem like part of the same show. I wonder how it’s going to work out. > > Also… if those five guys could kick someone to death in ten seconds, what was stopping them, and the rest of the cage crew, from overwhelming the five whole thugs holding them there? Fish had such obvious plot protection is was silly. In theory, I suppose, the thing keeping the prisoners from overwhelming the guards is the fact that the guards all had guns. What this doesn’t explain is why the head guard didn’t just shoot Fish in the knee once she started getting uppity. Or have his guards give her a beating. Or anything other than giving in to her demands. And then when Fish got taken to see the Manager, the guy just gets left without the guards? The Manager might as well have just shot him and been done with it. That said, I’m speculating now that “The Manager” is Maroni (he seems skeevy enough to do this) and now Fish is going to switch sides. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/428 "2015-02-18T14:00:06Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Fish had such obvious plot protection is was silly. I don’t suss ‘plot protection’ - I probably should. > [@](#): > > What this doesn’t explain is why the head guard didn’t just shoot Fish in the knee once she started getting uppity. Or have his guards give her a beating. Or anything other than giving in to her demands. Well, It Is A Comic Book. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/429 "2015-02-18T14:03:31Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > The Joker? The son was definitely channeling the Joker. > > “Did your mother have boyfriends?” > “No. She had lovers and sex partners.” No doubt Jerome was/is meant to be the Joker - that was clear - Wasn’t ‘Cicero’ also inthe books as either Joker’s nemesis/partner/both ? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/430 "2015-02-18T15:39:02Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I don’t suss ‘plot protection’ - I probably should. > Well, It Is A Comic Book. :rolleyes: I think you answered your first sentence with your second. ‘Plot protection’ meaning, the writers will ensure that no matter how the situation or how ridiculous the character’s actions, that character will come through the situation because the writer is not allowed to kill them off. Fish should have been dead several times over IMHO, but she keeps on living and moving on. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/431 "2015-02-18T15:57:40Z")
As one of the few regular characters who was created for the TV series and is _not_ connected to the grown-up Batman mythos, Fish Mooney has the least plot protection of anyone. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/432 "2015-02-18T16:12:31Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > I see the Grayson’s were introduced; did we meet the Boy Wonder to be? I assume the lines “If we have a son, we’ll name him Gordon” “Er, we’ll discuss it” were an inside joke of sorts, and that they will get married, have a son, and name him Dick. > [@simster](#): > > No doubt Jerome was/is meant to be the Joker - that was clear This was also _very_ strongly implied in the commercials for the episode. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/433 "2015-02-18T16:12:34Z")
The actress playing Leslie Thompkins played the alien in V, and I kind of always expect her jaw to detach and suddenly swallow Gordon whole. She does love jerking Gordon’s chain and messing with him, and I thought the psychic stuff was that until she left the dinner uneaten to go chase the clue. Obviously, the psychic was giving a clue to frame someone, turns out himself, and Gordon should have picked up on that to get leverage and find out more motivations. Everything was believable for me except leaving the dinner uneaten. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/434 "2015-02-18T16:15:18Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > As one of the few regular characters who was created for the TV series and is _not_ connected to the grown-up Batman mythos, Fish Mooney has the least plot protection of anyone. True, but while she may die in a season or series finale, I have strong doubts she’s going to get axed for any of the stupid shit she’s done so far. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/435 "2015-02-18T16:19:00Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The actress playing Leslie Thompkins played the alien in V, and I kind of always expect her jaw to detach and suddenly swallow Gordon whole. She does love jerking Gordon’s chain and messing with him, and I thought the psychic stuff was that until she left the dinner uneaten to go chase the clue. Obviously, the psychic was giving a clue to frame someone, turns out himself, and Gordon should have picked up on that to get leverage and find out more motivations. Everything was believable for me except leaving the dinner uneaten. She was also Inara on Firefly/Serenity - she knows very well how to mess with him and pull his chain. And she voices Gideon on Flash!!! ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/436 "2015-02-18T16:55:03Z")
I don’t recall any canon that made Joker’s mother a hooker or slut. Now, Rorschach’s mother… ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/437 "2015-02-18T16:58:35Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I don’t recall any canon that made Joker’s mother a hooker or slut. Now, Rorschach’s mother… a canon wouldn’t make her a slut - but it would ruin it for the next fella. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/438 "2015-02-18T19:06:19Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Wasn’t ‘Cicero’ also inthe books as either Joker’s nemesis/partner/both ? Refresh my memory. Who? > [@simster](#): > > And she voices Gideon on Flash!!! Didn’t know that. Cool. Crossover! Barry can time travel back to Gotham. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/439 "2015-02-18T19:32:38Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Refresh my memory. Who? Cicero was the ‘psychic’ , Jerome’s dad. I thought I remembered there being a char of that name in the Batman mythos, and that he had something to do with the joker - but can’t find it right now - likely because I have no clue as to what I am remembering. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/440 "2015-02-18T19:57:12Z")
> [@simster](#): > > a canon wouldn’t make her a slut - but it would ruin it for the next fella. Not if she’s Eskimo Nell. 😃 I just got a very Rorschach-y vibe from the kid, red hair, goofy look and all. \*Watchmen \*and \*Carnivale \*in the proto-Batman world. Cooooolllll. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355.md?page=23)