# Gotham (new show on Fox) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 23, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355 "2014-09-23T18:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/481 "2015-02-24T23:42:26Z")
Oh, you’re thinking she’s bisexual so she’d hit on a kid. No, I didn’t see that. I just thought she was a rich entitled hot-looking drunk who thought Selena should follow her path. Selena wasn’t buying it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/482 "2015-02-24T23:43:54Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Oh, you’re thinking she’s bisexual so she’d hit on a kid. No, I didn’t see that. I just thought she was a rich entitled hot-looking drunk who thought Selena should follow her path …okay, I hear it now." ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/483 "2015-02-25T01:14:25Z")
I don’t think they were going for bi-sexual Barbara going the pedo route, but it was certainly there to see if you wanted to. Barbara is lonely, self-obsessed, shallow and has really bad judgment. Letting Ivy and Selena stay at her apartment is the least disturbing of her bad judgment calls. Selena has a consistent world view that is amoral, but not filled with bad judgment. She has rather good judgment in virtually all instances. She sees Barbara as shallow with poor survival skills and that is the reason she rejects the dress/make-over in Barbara’s image offer. At least that is what the writers probably intended. Although it is also fair to insert/assume that Selena had good enough judgment and worldliness to also see it as possible pedo action and reject it on those grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/484 "2015-02-25T01:45:14Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Oh, you’re thinking she’s bisexual so she’d hit on a kid. No, I didn’t see that. I just thought she was a rich entitled hot-looking drunk who thought Selena should follow her path. Selena wasn’t buying it. The show has already established that Barbara is bisexual. No, I’m not one of those who assumes that bi/gay people will automatically prey upon kids. I’ve known enough gay people IRL, both male and female, that that is not a concern for me (I’m mostly conservative, but I don’t buy the conservative propaganda on this issue, and I also voted in favor of gay marriage in my state). I already implied that I may have misinterpreted the scene. I’ve only watched it once, and the vibe I got was that Barbara was hitting on Selena. Barbara is distraught and lonely, and not in her right mind, even without factoring in the alcohol. I just saw her making an inappropriate move, at least the way I interpreted what I watched. That said, it will be interesting to find out if she continues to allow Selena and Ivy to “hang out” in her space. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/485 "2015-02-25T01:58:06Z")
I just meant you in general. Not you you. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/486 "2015-02-25T02:19:17Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I don’t think they were going for bi-sexual Barbara going the pedo route, but it was certainly there to see if you wanted to. Barbara is lonely, self-obsessed, shallow and has really bad judgment. Letting Ivy and Selena stay at her apartment is the least disturbing of her bad judgment calls. Selena has a consistent world view that is amoral, but not filled with bad judgment. She has rather good judgment in virtually all instances. She sees Barbara as shallow with poor survival skills and that is the reason she rejects the dress/make-over in Barbara’s image offer. At least that is what the writers probably intended. Although it is also fair to insert/assume that Selena had good enough judgment and worldliness to also see it as possible pedo action and reject it on those grounds. I agree that Selena has good judgment - she’s one of the smartest characters on the show. And in that scene, she’s paired up with the character with perhaps the _worst_ judgment. And, despite her character being less than half Barbara’s age (assuming that Barbara is in her late-20s/early-30s), she shows herself to be the more mature character. I suspect that, when she grows up to become Catwoman, she will remember Barbara’s line about her beauty being a more powerful weapon than a gun or knife. It certainly worked on Batman in the comics. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/487 "2015-02-25T04:16:41Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I suspect that, when she grows up to become Catwoman, she will remember Barbara’s line about her beauty being a more powerful weapon than a gun or knife. It certainly worked on Batman in the comics. That, and its only a misdemeanor to use it. The more you miss it, da meaner you get! ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/488 "2015-02-25T04:39:23Z")
She did use the “do you wanna kiss me?” thing on young Bruce. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/489 "2015-02-25T12:33:21Z")
Okay, after a couple more viewings of the scene, I’ll retract my original interpretation. Now I feel more like Barbara thought that Selena was silently judging her. Barb’s subsequent actions read more like at attempt to bring Selena down to her own level, but they only resulted in Selena acting like the adult in the relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/490 "2015-02-25T13:22:01Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Eventually, he’s bound to realize he should keep a concealed weapon at the ready. Say…like concealing a rifle in an umbrella? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/491 "2015-02-25T13:59:46Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Say…like concealing a rifle in an umbrella? 😉 I gotta admit, I figured on getting an _I See What You Did There_ reply a lot sooner. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/492 "2015-02-25T14:16:24Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > That was confusing. Is he really a down and out drunk, or not? I think he’s down and out in a career sense, and doing dirty bottom-feeder jobs like posing as a drunk to get inside an old regiment buddy’s head. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/493 "2015-02-25T14:39:00Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > It looked to me like she was hitting on Selena, and I’m wondering if that’s what they intended me to think. The read I get is that Selena thinks that she might be hitting on her – it’s the sort of thing she’s probably had to deal with on the streets. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/494 "2015-02-25T14:52:06Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > **I think Barbara is contemplating villainhood**. She’d make a better villain. OTOH, maybe that was her wake up moment and she’ll start getting her act together. That would be no fun. This is what I got from it. We’ve seen her in a downward spiral for some weeks now and the closing lines between them were something to the effect of: Barbara: “you’ll find you can use your beauty as a weapon” Selena: “yeah, how’s that worked out for \*you \*so far?” To me this was some not so subtle foreshadowing of Barbara’s future leap to the dark side. Or it could just be the show yanking our collective chain, as they are wont to do. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/495 "2015-02-25T18:44:54Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I think he’s down and out in a career sense, and doing dirty bottom-feeder jobs like posing as a drunk to get inside an old regiment buddy’s head. You know they have no security at Wayne Manor\*. Then a old SAS buddy wanders by- why not hire him as security? - which is stupid crazy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/496 "2015-02-25T18:52:17Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Okay, after a couple more viewings of the scene, I’ll retract my original interpretation. Now I feel more like Barbara thought that Selena was silently judging her. Barb’s subsequent actions read more like at attempt to bring Selena down to her own level, but they only resulted in Selena acting like the adult in the relationship. Selena measures and judges people quite quickly. And gives plenty of verbal cuts, which she sometimes regrets. The kid has a great role and handles it well. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/497 "2015-02-25T18:53:54Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > The show has already established that Barbara is bisexual. No, I’m not one of those who assumes that bi/gay people will automatically prey upon kids. I’ve known enough gay people IRL, both male and female, that that is not a concern for me (I’m mostly conservative, but I don’t buy the conservative propaganda on this issue, and I also voted in favor of gay marriage in my state). > > I already implied that I may have misinterpreted the scene. I’ve only watched it once, and the vibe I got was that Barbara was hitting on Selena. Barbara is distraught and lonely, and not in her right mind, even without factoring in the alcohol. I just saw her making an inappropriate move, at least the way I interpreted what I watched. I got the same vibe. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/498 "2015-02-25T19:07:06Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Selena measures and judges people quite quickly. And gives plenty of verbal cuts, which she sometimes regrets. The kid has a great role and handles it well. And is a truly extraordinary-looking young woman. A unique beauty - and I use the word in its precise meaning. I can’t think of anyone she looks like, or vice versa. I understand they probably chose her from among more conventional looks because of her natural feline face, but I am very interested to see what she looks like in a few more years. She has every bit of potential to be as defining as… Liz Taylor. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/499 "2015-02-25T19:31:00Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I can’t think of anyone she looks like, or vice versa. Surely they picked her to make us think _young Michelle Pfeiffer_. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355/500 "2015-02-25T19:34:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Surely they picked her to make us think _young Michelle Pfeiffer_. Maybe a bit. But Pfeiffer has a narrower face and more normal eye-set, much more conventional looking. Bicondova is just details away from being weird-looking instead of beautiful, and that edge will become, I suspect, her edge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gotham-new-show-on-fox/699355.md?page=26)