# Gov. Cuomo: America "was never that great" - is this a common sentiment on the Left?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [August 20, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934 "2018-08-20T22:47:41Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/61 "2018-08-21T15:24:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> How would you define it?
Personally, I probably wouldn’t. I think “greatness” is a nebulous term that’s usually used to evoke emotional responses. There are terms out there that are more subject to empirical measurement.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/62 "2018-08-21T15:50:46Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> OK. Since you asked politely, [here’s your thread.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=860822)
Sorry, I strive to not post in the Pit (I genuinely thought you were already aware of this). Perhaps you could try again in one of the other forums, or this one.
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### Author:  [@carlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlb)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/63 "2018-08-21T16:13:24Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#):
>
> I think anyone born here should consider themselves lucky. The USA is the best country in the world and our bill of rights is still a gold standard.
>
> Rather than focus on stuff that happened 50-300 years ago, I think the nation is better off looking at how we have changed for the better.
>
> America is viewed as one of the greatest nations in the world today. I do understand that some who live here hate it. That is their right, and they are also free to leave. Yet we seldom see that. Gee, I wonder why.
I’m probably going to regret this, but here we go…
“The USA is the best country in the world…” By what measure? I’m seriously asking the question; what’s your yardstick? Right here is a fundamental problem with assessing America’s “greatness.” Do you measure military strength? Literacy and education rates? GDP? Infant mortality rates? Unemployment rate? Poverty rate? What combinations of all of these? By some of these measures America is quite great, and by others not so much. What is important to you will likely not have equal importance to the person sitting next to you, or across from you, or corresponding with you on the internet.
“Rather than focus on the stuff that happened 50-300 years ago…” First, that’s quite a broad range. Second, 50 years ago was only 1968. We were embroiled in Viet Nam, we were in the middle of a heated election cycle, we were only four years into implementation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the Fair Housing act had just passed. You think none of those events have an impact on today? Shouldn’t the history of these events (and so many more) inform the decisions we make? How about going farther back in time. Don’t you think we should look at the era of the Robber Barons, and our military adventures in Central America, and the financial collapse of 1929, and consider how they still impact us, and how to avoid things like that happening again? I know Santayana’s quote has become a bit of a chestnut, but it is still meaningful and I, for one, will do my best to not repeat some of our worst mistakes.
“America is viewed as one of the greatest nations in the world today…” I could ask a lot of the same questions again. By whom and by what measure?
For the record, I _ **do** _ consider myself fortunate to have been born in America. But you know what? I probably would consider myself fortunate had I been born in Canada, or the UK, or France, or Sweden, or any number of other places. I don’t hate America, but I’m not entirely happy with her, either. I don’t leave because I enjoy my home, and my family, and I honestly, truly believe that we can work toward improving _every_ American’s lot in life, being a force for good on the global stage, and becoming the model of a democratic republic that we’ve always held ourselves out to be. I intend to continue to do my part to achieve these goals.
I am a patriot. I pay my taxes (all of them; not just the ones on income I haven’t hidden from the government). I willingly serve on juries when called. I vote religiously. I am as kind to my fellow Americans as I know how to be. I obey the law. I support everyone’s right to speak their mind, to worship as they see fit, and to generally live their life as best they can, however they choose. If that doesn’t sound patriotic enough to you, then I don’t know what else I can do or say to change your mind.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/64 "2018-08-21T16:20:26Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#):
>
> I think anyone born here should consider themselves lucky. The USA is the best country in the world and our bill of rights is still a gold standard.
I don’t know about that. As I said in some other recent thread, it’s an historic touchstone but it is not really the model. It’s archaic and imprecise.
Cuomo obviously should have thought out his comments better before speaking. This didn’t need hindsight to know that his backpedal should have been in his original statement. Pretty bad flub for such a pure politician.
“America’s greatness had always hidden character flaws. Our most heroic achievement, the defeat of Nazi Germany, was done with segregated troops with African Americans being blocked fom participating in our democracy. We don’t need to be great like that again. We can be better.”
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/65 "2018-08-21T16:44:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> No, your posts are not invisible.
> I would guess that one of his aides said something to him along the lines of “you just wrecked your shot at the 2020 presidential election” shortly after he left the stage, and at that point he probably realized just how bad what he’d done was and started worked on a plan to backtrack ASAP. I think saying “the phrasing was quite poor” (or that his comment was “inartful”) doesn’t really capture the extreme idiocy of what he did, but for purposes of our discussion I’ll agree with this.
>
> I agree that it was at least in part a rebuttal to President Trump’s MAGA campaign slogan. I’ll note that you appear to be soft-pedaling what the Governor actually said by leaving out the word “never”, but I think you’ve more-or-less captured the point that he was stupidly / badly trying to make.
Thank you for responding. I didn’t mean to soft-peddle what Cuomo said – I dashed this off before going to catch a train so I didn’t get the quote right. Thank you for the correction.
Since he has already back-peddled, I don’t understand the purpose of this thread. Even Cuomo says he didn’t really mean it that way – why would you ask if other liberals think that? It just strikes me as a swipe at liberals based on something stupid that Cuomo said.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/66 "2018-08-21T16:49:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I’d be rather surprised if you could find a quote from some high-ranking elected Republican, like say a Governor or something, that expressed this sentiment.
Of course not, that’s why they speak in dog whistles and speak of “us” and “them”.
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### Author:  [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/67 "2018-08-21T17:27:21Z")
“Great” is a moving target that we’ll never hit. But America has never been greater than it is today.
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### Author:  [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/68 "2018-08-21T17:27:57Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#):
>
> I think anyone born here should consider themselves lucky. The USA is the best country in the world and our bill of rights is still a gold standard.
>
> Rather than focus on stuff that happened 50-300 years ago, I think the nation is better off looking at how we have changed for the better.
>
> America is viewed as one of the greatest nations in the world today. I do understand that some who live here hate it. That is their right, and they are also free to leave. Yet we seldom see that. Gee, I wonder why.
If the US is so great, why doesn’t our President think so?
---
### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/69 "2018-08-21T17:57:16Z")
Look, I don’t know if I can cope with all this. Andrew Cuomo? Paragon of lefty liberals everywhere, tireless champion of progressive progress, the Bed-hair Bernie of Brooklyn…crushed, bereft, despondent…me golden idol is tarnished…
(Failure of sarcasm reserves, snark overload…I mean, _c’mon_! Andy C. is “the left” like Obama is Angela Davis, in that they are both somewhat brownish…)
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/70 "2018-08-21T18:04:37Z")
> [@RitterSport](#):
>
> … Since he has already back-peddled, I don’t understand the purpose of this thread. Even Cuomo says he didn’t really mean it that way – why would you ask if other liberals think that? It just strikes me as a swipe at liberals based on something stupid that Cuomo said.
The purpose was mostly to see how widespread attitudes like Wesley Clark’s and Moriarty’s are among the Left. Here at the SDMB I’ve got access to an overwhelmingly-left-leaning audience that is more generally inclined to rational discussion than the average Leftist.
As perhaps a secondary purpose, I thought it was interesting that such an embarrassing faux pas didn’t already have a thread of its own in our Elections Forum, so I decided to do the community a service and start one.
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### Author:  [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/71 "2018-08-21T18:20:04Z")
[I think The Newsroom put it best.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPHSXUS0_1c)
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/72 "2018-08-21T18:26:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> …so I decided to do the community a service and start one.
Damn white of you!
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### Author:  [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/73 "2018-08-21T19:09:01Z")
You think Cuomo is the Left. How cute.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/74 "2018-08-21T19:23:57Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#):
>
> You think Cuomo is the Left. How cute.
He’s definitely not on the right.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/75 "2018-08-21T21:24:13Z")
In answer to HurricaneDitka’s original question: no, I don’t think that it’s a common sentiment among liberals.
Upthread, I think that RitterSport, Exapno Mapcase, and Ann Hedonia all did a good job of laying out how most liberals feel about it: we love our country, we love the ideals that our country was founded on, our country has done many great (even amazing) things, but our country has also done (and too frequently continues to do) less-than-great things to people, particularly people who aren’t wealthy white Christian males.
There’s undoubtedly a subgroup within liberals who feel more strongly that the U.S.'s treatment of various groups (minorities, women, non-Christians, other countries, etc.) outweighs any good that the country has done, and, thus, could agree with Cuomo’s statement at face value. And, yes, with a few minutes of digging on the internet, I have no doubt that you could find statements to that effect, and even to the effect that they hate America. But, IME, it’s a fringe view.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/76 "2018-08-21T21:45:39Z")
@kenobi 65, thanks for your thoughtful response.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/77 "2018-08-21T22:12:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> @kenobi 65, thanks for your thoughtful response.
You are most welcome.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/78 "2018-08-21T22:25:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Much of the progressive Left is based on grievance politics
Or in striving for an America where “equal protection of the law” has meaning.
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### Author:  [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/79 "2018-08-21T22:28:26Z")
I am going to re-quote the context that running coach put in post #2:
> [@](#):
>
> “We’re not going to make America great again. It was never that great,” Cuomo, a Democrat, remarked at a bill signing event in New York City. The comment was met by an audible reaction from the crowd.
> His comments were a response to President Donald Trump’s campaign catchphrase – “Make America Great Again.”
>
> “We have not reached greatness. We will reach greatness when every American is fully engaged,” Cuomo added. “We will reach greatness when discrimination and stereotyping of women, 51% of our population, is gone, and every woman’s full potential is realized and unleashed and every woman is making her full contribution.”
This was not a walk-back the next day. _This was the rest of the fucking paragraph of which you only quote the first sentence._ It was a rhetorical device to hook the audience with a shocking statement, then get the point across.
Taken as a whole, the _entire_ quote (not just the sound bite) does sum up what many of us on the left think: there is no time in the past that was so great that it would be worth going back to. Keep moving forward.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/80 "2018-08-21T22:55:52Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#):
>
> … This was not a walk-back the next day. …
This is an idiotic claim.
[CBS News: New York Governor Andrew Cuomo walks back comments he made in attempt to mock President Trump’s campaign slogan Make America Great Again](https://www.cbsnews.com/live/video/20180818020933-new-york-governor-andrew-cuomo-walks-back-comments-he-made-in-an-attempt-to-mock-president-trumps-campaign-slogan-make-america-great-ag/)
[NBC News: Gov. Andrew Cuomo backtracks on controversial comment that ‘was never that great’](https://www.nbcnews.com/video/gov-andrew-cuomo-backtracks-on-controversial-comment-that-was-never-that-great-1301411907582?v=raila)
[North County Public Radio: Cuomo walks back “America was never great” comment](https://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/36848/20180820/cuomo-walks-back-america-was-never-great-comment)
[The Hill: Cuomo’s office walks back comment that America ‘was never that great’](http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/402037-cuomos-office-walks-back-comment-that-america-was-never-that-great)
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