# Gov. Cuomo: America "was never that great" - is this a common sentiment on the Left?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [August 20, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934 "2018-08-20T22:47:41Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/141 "2018-08-22T22:02:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> his “clarification” is a switch from “never” (in the first quote) to “always” (in the second quote).
>
> If one day I said “America was never that great” and the next day I came back and said “Of course America is great and of course America has always been great. No one questions that”, do you think many people would believe those two statements on two separate days have the same meaning, or something closer to the opposite meaning?
>
> Yes, I included a link to the video. I think I did a “great” ( 😉 ) job with the context.
Do you feel that there is no difference between the phrases “America was never that great” and “America was never great”?
It seems as though you are seeing the first phrase, but somehow, thinking that it was the second.
The first phrase does not contradict the clarification, though the second, incorrect phrase does.
Is that your confusion, that you are not reading the “that” in the phrase, and therefore misunderstanding it?
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/142 "2018-08-22T22:15:49Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> On a scale of 1-10, how shocked were you that his clarification didn’t use exactly the same words, in the same order, as his original statement?
I wasn’t at all surprised that it used the opposite word (“never” vs “always”) because the original statement was so politically tone-deaf.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/143 "2018-08-22T22:20:57Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> Do you feel that there is no difference between the phrases “America was never that great” and “America was never great”?
There’s definitely a slight difference. I’ve tried to maintain the distinction, but it’s gotten tedious and it’s probably slipped out a time or two without the “that” in there.
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> It seems as though you are seeing the first phrase, but somehow, thinking that it was the second.
>
> The first phrase does not contradict the clarification, though the second, incorrect phrase does.
>
> Is that your confusion, that you are not reading the “that” in the phrase, and therefore misunderstanding it?
No, however, I don’t agree that it’s not a contradiction. For example (analogy warning), If I were to say “my car was never that blue” and then reverse myself and say “my car has always been blue”, I think that’s a clear contradiction. Do you agree?
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/144 "2018-08-22T22:26:24Z")
Well, that’s that, without Andrew Cuomo leading, guiding the way forward, we’re just boned. Can’t decide whether to shit or go bowling, without him. Damn!
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/145 "2018-08-22T22:31:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> No, however, I don’t agree that it’s not a contradiction. For example (analogy warning), If I were to say “my car was never that blue” and then reverse myself and say “my car has always been blue”, I think that’s a clear contradiction. Do you agree?
I don’t agree. “Never that blue” implies that it’s blue, just not a particularly rich shade of blue. Would you ever use the phrase “never that blue” to describe your red car? (Are you a native English speaker?)
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### Author:  [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/146 "2018-08-23T00:23:22Z")
The question is basically unanswerable until a mutually agreed-upon definition of “greatness” is arrived at. I suggest that trump’s “Great America” would differ somewhat from Barack Obama’s “Great America” if for no other reason than that Barack Obama would _be_ in the latter.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/147 "2018-08-23T00:56:01Z")
> [@E-DUB](#):
>
> The question is basically unanswerable until a mutually agreed-upon definition of “greatness” is arrived at. I suggest that trump’s “Great America” would differ somewhat from Barack Obama’s “Great America” if for no other reason than that Barack Obama would _be_ in the latter.
Obama would have a place in Trump’s idea of a great America. Somebody has to carry the luggage, after all.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/148 "2018-08-23T01:03:04Z")
It’s fascinating how this thread keeps getting closer to moon-hoaxing threads as it gets longer. All the objections are of the “Look, here’s a photo that shows a pixel that is golden instead of beige! That proves it was filmed in Nevada!” variety. No substance, no depth, no acknowledgement of refutations however they are stated. And never a look at the bigger picture or the context.
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### Author:  [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2018, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/149 "2018-08-23T01:16:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I don’t know where on the political spectrum you land.
I’m asking your definition of ‘on the Left’? Is it supporting civil and human rights, or fiscal responsibility?"
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/150 "2018-08-23T01:24:10Z")
> [@j666](#):
>
> I’m asking your definition of ‘on the Left’? Is it supporting civil and human rights, or fiscal responsibility?"
Neither, but probably even less on the fiscal responsibility front than not supporting civil and human rights.
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### Author:  [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/151 "2018-08-23T01:44:11Z")
Then what is it, torture supporter?
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### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/152 "2018-08-23T17:53:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> There’s definitely a slight difference. I’ve tried to maintain the distinction, but it’s gotten tedious and it’s probably slipped out a time or two without the “that” in there.
>
> No, however, I don’t agree that it’s not a contradiction. For example (analogy warning), If I were to say “my car was never that blue” and then reverse myself and say “my car has always been blue”, I think that’s a clear contradiction. Do you agree?
Not at all.
I have a light blue car, you have a deep blue car.
I look at your car, and say, “My car was never that blue.”
You say, “You are saying that you car isn’t blue?”
I say, “My car has always been blue.”
You say, “But you said that you car was never that blue, which means you contradicted yourself.”
Does that exchange make any sense to you? At all?
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### Author:  [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/153 "2018-08-23T19:30:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> [Recently Gov. Cuomo (D-NY) said America “was never that great.”](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/08/15/ny-gov-andrew-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-sot-vpx.ny-governors-office) Is this a common sentiment among those on the Left?
For growing numbers of us, it’s just not an issue that we think about. It’s like arguments over whether or not Joe Flacco is “elite,” largely meaningless, while we’re thinking instead of the important issues of the day that will make the nation better.
We’ve got serious problems to address. Too many and too serious to engage in puffery like our level of “greatness.”
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### Author:  [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/154 "2018-08-23T21:39:35Z")
Why is it sooooo important for the USA to be THE BEST COUNTRY EVER IN HISTORY NOW AND 4-EVAHHHHHHHH!!! ?
I think it’s an untrue and extremely irritating viewpoint.
Yes, the US has done some wonderful, and also some terrible things, but come on, so has every other country on the planet. It’s called humanity.
Plus, yelling that AMERICA IS THE GREATEST from every rooftop makes us look bad. Like we think everyone else sucks. Like all other countries are either shithole countries, (to quote a well known person,) or countries that aren’t shitholes, but still are really really jealous of us, and want to be us.
It isn’t true and it never was true. And bashing people who point that out doesn’t make it true.
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### Author:  [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/155 "2018-08-23T21:48:51Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> It’s fascinating how this thread keeps getting closer to moon-hoaxing threads as it gets longer. All the objections are of the “Look, here’s a photo that shows a pixel that is golden instead of beige! That proves it was filmed in Nevada!” variety. No substance, no depth, no acknowledgement of refutations however they are stated. And never a look at the bigger picture or the context.
I very rarely comment in a thread I haven’t read all the way through, but this is one of those times, because I feel so confident that what we have here is:
HD and perhaps fellow-travelers saying _‘OMG THIS PROVES IT ALL LIBERALS HATE AMERICA ADMIT IT YOU LOSERS WE CAUGHT YOU’_
…and others saying
‘Cuomo clearly was going for something like ‘_America has always had issues to face, starting with displacing the inhabitants here when Columbus arrived_,’ but he disastrously misspoke, giving right-wingers their best gift since, like, ever’
…and then a lot of bitter back-and-forth in which the same two positions are repeated ad nauseam.
About right?
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### Author:  [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2018, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/156 "2018-08-23T23:51:04Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#):
>
> I very rarely comment in a thread I haven’t read all the way through, but this is one of those times, because I feel so confident that what we have here is:
>
> HD and perhaps fellow-travelers saying _‘OMG THIS PROVES IT ALL LIBERALS HATE AMERICA ADMIT IT YOU LOSERS WE CAUGHT YOU’_
>
> …and others saying
>
> ‘Cuomo clearly was going for something like ‘_America has always had issues to face, starting with displacing the inhabitants here when Columbus arrived_,’ but he disastrously misspoke, giving right-wingers their best gift since, like, ever’
>
> …and then a lot of bitter back-and-forth in which the same two positions are repeated ad nauseam.
>
> About right?
Well, some of us just admit that for those who did not appear to be heterosexual males of primarily Northern European descent, he’s right.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/157 "2018-08-23T23:56:08Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#):
>
> … HD and perhaps fellow-travelers saying _‘OMG THIS PROVES IT ALL LIBERALS HATE AMERICA ADMIT IT YOU LOSERS WE CAUGHT YOU’_…
Which post(s) of mine in this thread do you think most closely approximate this imagined quote?
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/158 "2018-08-24T01:09:00Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> Which post(s) of mine in this thread do you think most closely approximate this imagined quote?
All of them.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/159 "2018-08-24T01:41:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> For example (analogy warning), If I were to say “my car was never that blue” and then reverse myself and say “my car has always been blue”, I think that’s a clear contradiction.
I’m afraid you might to have to show your work on this one, because it make no sense at all. At the very least, describe the contradiction you see between _blue_ and _that blue_, since the latter is a subset of the former.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-is-this-a-common-sentiment-on-the-left/819934/160 "2018-08-24T01:57:05Z")
Maybe its a description of the car’s emotional state, being sad and blue. It can happen, I had a Volkswagen bus that was severely bi-polar.
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