# Gov Newsom cancels Death Penalty **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2019, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109 "2019-03-14T02:42:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/101 "2019-03-17T02:01:55Z")
Do you really believe that, or are you attempting sarcasm? I’m deeply opposed to the death penalty on both moral and practical grounds, but that is the silliest argument I’ve ever encountered. If it’s offered as a serious point, you fail. Even if you’re trying to be funny, you fail. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/102 "2019-03-17T16:34:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You know who gives a free pass to murderers? Death penalty advocates. If I wanted to get away with murder, I wouldn’t do it in California-- I’d do it in Texas. That way, all I have to do is to lay low until someone is executed for the murder, and now I’m scott free. > > Remember, every time an innocent person is executed for murder, not only does that mean that the state is a murderer, it also means that there’s some other murderer out there who will now never face the consequences of the law. Justice is served by the truth. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Do you really believe that, or are you attempting sarcasm? > > I’m deeply opposed to the death penalty on both moral and practical grounds, but that is the silliest argument I’ve ever encountered. > > If it’s offered as a serious point, you fail. Even if you’re trying to be funny, you fail. He’s right you know. That is a silly idea. If you are going to do that, [do it in Florida.](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/28/us/florida-police-chief-frame-black-people.html) (if you are white that is) While I assume that Chronos’s point was fairly tongue in cheek, his point that once an innocent person has been convicted, and really once they’ve been charged, the police will no longer investigate to find the real criminal is extremely valid. If someone is actually in jail, there is a chance that they may manage to prove their innocence, which would reopen the case. Once someone is executed, it is incredibly rare for the conviction to be overturned, meaning that, short of a direct confession, there is no chance that the real killer will ever even be looked for, much less caught. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/103 "2019-03-18T17:42:48Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > If the reasons for the wrongful execution happening still exist, yes, that’s exactly what we’re arguing. > > If you want to argue that the factors no longer exist or are a concern, have at it. Isn’t the point of giving the governor the power to commute a sentence that he could use it in cases where the evidence is poor and there is some doubt about whether the prisoner is guilty? Newsom has pardoned everybody on death row. There is a murderer who had a recording of him torturing a victim in his apartment, another who was recorded taunting the mother of his victim, there is one who confessed to killing four women and walked into a police station with a victim’s severed breast in his pocket, there is another who is on videotape killing two women and telling one “You can cry and stuff, like the rest of them, but it won’t do any good. We are pretty … cold-hearted, so to speak.” If the problem is that we can’t be sure that everyone who was sentenced to death is guilty, can we execute the ones we know are obviously guilty? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/104 "2019-03-18T17:44:05Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Newsom has pardoned everybody on death row. Cite? Or do you consider commuting to life imprisonment equivalent to a pardon? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/105 "2019-03-18T17:45:48Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Newsom has pardoned everybody on death row. Has he? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/106 "2019-03-18T19:09:24Z")
So when loading the main SDMB page this thread happened to be the last posted to in GD, and the thread title off on the right was truncated to ‘Gov Newsom cancels Death…’ So, okay, I know the governor of California is a fairly powerful person, but this might be a little beyond the purview of his office. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/107 "2019-03-18T20:00:47Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Isn’t the point of giving the governor the power to commute a sentence that he could use it in cases where the evidence is poor and there is some doubt about whether the prisoner is guilty? > > Newsom has pardoned everybody on death row. There is a murderer who had a recording of him torturing a victim in his apartment, another who was recorded taunting the mother of his victim, there is one who confessed to killing four women and walked into a police station with a victim’s severed breast in his pocket, there is another who is on videotape killing two women and telling one “You can cry and stuff, like the rest of them, but it won’t do any good. We are pretty … cold-hearted, so to speak.” > > If the problem is that we can’t be sure that everyone who was sentenced to death is guilty, can we execute the ones we know are obviously guilty? No. Because capital punishment is and always has been morally wrong. And barring the development of resurrection technology, it always _will be_. This is objective, non-debatable fact. Accordingly, I won’t participate in the debate. If y’all want to discuss hypotheses about how **puddleglum** has managed to remain unnotified of this fact, have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/108 "2019-03-18T21:10:26Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > there is another who is on videotape killing two women and telling one “You can cry and stuff, like the rest of them, but it won’t do any good. We are pretty … cold-hearted, so to speak.” > > If the problem is that we can’t be sure that everyone who was sentenced to death is guilty, can we execute the ones we know are obviously guilty? Charles Ng, huh? California sure was eager to get their hands on him after he’d fled to Canada, and while Canadian officials were hesitant to extradite Ng because he was likely to face the death penalty, we sure didn’t want him on _our_ streets, so we kicked him out. In 1991. More than 25 years before Gavin Newsom became governor. And Ng is still alive. Maybe you just shouldn’t have the death penalty at all, because you do such a half-assed job at it. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/109 "2019-03-18T21:16:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’ve encountered people in my life for whom imprisonment would have been an improvement on their status quo. It’s certainly a better proposition than sleeping on a street corner and eating out of dumpsters. [People have certainly committed crimes for the specific purpose of being imprisoned for such reasons;](https://www.businessinsider.com/jail-getting-arrested-deliberately-2018-3#to-get-access-to-healthcare-2) O Henry wrote about that 115 years ago… [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The\_Cop\_and\_the\_Anthem](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Cop_and_the_Anthem) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/110 "2019-03-18T23:07:55Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > . > > Newsom has pardoned everybody on death row. No, he has\*\* not.\*\* He has for all intents and purposes commuted their Death sentence to Life. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/111 "2019-03-18T23:11:25Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > No. Because capital punishment is and always has been morally wrong. And barring the development of resurrection technology, it always _will be_. > > This is objective, non-debatable fact. Accordingly, I won’t participate in the debate. If y’all want to discuss hypotheses about how **puddleglum** has managed to remain unnotified of this fact, have fun. Actually that’s subjective opinion. However, the purpose here was not to debate the DP as such, it was to ask whether or not Newsome was wrong in lying about his promise to uphold the DP? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/112 "2019-03-18T23:35:13Z")
I have to ask, for those willing to risk the chance of an innocent person being executed – would YOU be willing to be that innocent person? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/113 "2019-03-19T00:05:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, he has\*\* not.\*\* He has for all intents and purposes commuted their Death sentence to Life. Except the next governor can lift the moratorium. Newsom can’t commute their sentences on his own, in most cases, because of a quirk in our law so all he can do is stop them while he is in charge. He could pardon them but he certainly won’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/114 "2019-03-19T00:08:32Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I have to ask, for those willing to risk the chance of an innocent person being executed – would YOU be willing to be that innocent person? Would you willing to be the innocent person given Life? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/115 "2019-03-19T00:29:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Would you willing to be the innocent person given Life? I understand the individual words, but…? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/116 "2019-03-19T02:41:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I understand the individual words, but…? Life Imprisonment, what did you think?:rolleyes: A crappy board game? A tasteless cereal? ---
**Author:** ![customdistro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb9ed0/32.png) [@customdistro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/customdistro)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/117 "2019-03-19T03:04:20Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If the problem is that we can’t be sure that everyone who was sentenced to death is guilty, can we execute the ones we know are obviously guilty? yes-- all you have to do is raise the standard of proof substantially every time an innocent person is executed. then youll end up executing about 1 person a year, two years, five years-- until all thats left is a lot of lost taxpayer money, and a very expensive system for killing a couple of really nasty horrible people every decade or so. which is almost what california has now, and sooner or later theyre going to love having money to spend on fixing something like global warming, rather than pumping some psychopath full of chemicals every few years. its too expensive. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/118 "2019-03-19T04:56:33Z")
> [@customdistro](#): > > yes-- all you have to do is raise the standard of proof substantially every time an innocent person is executed. > … Actually, in the last few decades, afaik, there havent been any. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/119 "2019-03-19T04:59:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Would you willing to be the innocent person given Life? Hell, yes, I would. The life imprisonment isn’t coming out of nowhere; it’s a sentence after being convicted. Now, if I were falsely accused of a crime and then convicted of it, I’d rather be given life imprisonment instead of getting executed. While still alive in prison, I can assist my attorney with any and all attempts at exoneration. FTR: I actually have been falsely accused of a serious crime. I was not tried, let alone convicted, but it was not a fun thing to face. ---
**Author:** ![customdistro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb9ed0/32.png) [@customdistro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/customdistro)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109/120 "2019-03-19T05:00:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Actually, in the last few decades, afaik, there havent been any. we are basically already at the point where i was talking about-- where about 13 people are executed over the course of decades, and the real question left is “what are we really spending all this money on?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gov-newsom-cancels-death-penalty/831109.md?page=7)