# Govenor Scott Walker (R) WI **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743 "2011-02-17T20:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/261 "2011-02-23T17:38:35Z")
It’s incredible to me that people, even the grass-roots take-back-the-country-for-the-working-man old school conservatives, still don’t see that quashing the unions is 100% about the rich bastards fucking the poor working stiff right in the ass, with no apologies, explanations, or lubrication. Balanced budget, my ass. Congrats on electing the Tea Party, you bozos. This is what you wanted. Enjoy your unemployment. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/262 "2011-02-23T17:44:22Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > I worked for the State of Texas many years ago and I knew plenty of people that worked for “free” after their 40. I can relate similar stories about my past experiences as well, public and private sector. Doesn’t change a thing. Was there a budget crises in TX at the time? People’s little personal stories don’t make national news. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/263 "2011-02-23T17:47:17Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > …quashing the unions is 100% about the rich bastards fucking the poor working stiff right in the ass, with no apologies, explanations, or lubrication. Balanced budget, my ass. Sounds like it’s about time you got yours in the sphincter, silver spoon-boy. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/264 "2011-02-23T17:48:23Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Sounds like it’s about time you got yours in the sphincter, silver spoon-boy. :rolleyes: A new low! Even more aptly yclept than I had at first suspected. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/265 "2011-02-23T17:49:35Z")
The union busting measures in Walker’s bill don’t have anything to do with Wisconsin’s budget crisis (a crisis which Walker himself excacerbated by giving away hundreds of millions of dollars away to rich people, by the way). Any talk about the budget is a red herring. This is about busting the unions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/266 "2011-02-23T18:16:01Z")
What if this whole tussle is just a diversion? Is there anything else on Walker’s agenda that might greatly benefit the Koch’s? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/267 "2011-02-23T18:23:09Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > What if this whole tussle is just a diversion? Is there anything else on Walker’s agenda that might greatly benefit the Koch’s? Yep. > [@](#): > > Check out Section 44.16.896 of Wisconsin Senate Bill 11, which reads– > > ``` > *(1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).* > > ``` > > What this says is that the State of Wisconsin can sell or contract out management of state-owned heating, cooling and power plants without the requirement that bids for such a sale or leasing be solicited so as to maximize what the government can pocket through such an arrangement. > > Put another way, the state can pick who they want and make whatever deal they want without anyone else having a chance to bid on the deal. > > SOURCE: [A Secret Deal Between Gov. Walker And Koch Brothers Buried In State Budget?](http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/22/a-secret-deal-between-gov-walker-and-koch-brothers-buried-in-state-budget/) ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/268 "2011-02-23T18:25:13Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > What if this whole tussle is just a diversion? Is there anything else on Walker’s agenda that might greatly benefit the Koch’s? What, systematically removing the influence of workers from any business decision-making, and allowing rich people to run roughshod over any protests or objections they might raise isn’t diabolical enough of an endgame for you? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/269 "2011-02-23T18:33:36Z")
But they haven’t done that yet - they’ve been working towards that, yes, but haven’t actually accomplished it. Maybe they are able to and still end up giving the Koch’s some no-bid contracts; or they concede the collective bargaining after a long drawn out fight on the condition that the bit that **Whack-a-Mole** cited gets passed without any opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/270 "2011-02-23T18:33:40Z")
Actually, **Nadir** , what this is really about is the Reublicans trying to detroy the only organized, monied organizations that supports the Dems to counteract the corporate intersts that dump shitloads of money into the Republican coffers. If you think this is about fiscal responsibility or anything else than you are being fooled. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/271 "2011-02-23T18:34:45Z")
Well I have to admit, I did not think this would devolve into a paranoid conspiracy theory about the “rich people.” 😛 Run with it dudes and dudettes! This should get pretty entertaining after the rich people get home from work… ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/272 "2011-02-23T18:37:01Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Well I have to admit, I did not think this would devolve into a paranoid conspiracy theory about the “rich people.” 😛 > > Run with it dudes and dudettes! This should get pretty entertaining after the rich people get home from work… The term “useful idiot” was coined with you personally in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/273 "2011-02-23T18:39:51Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > The term “useful idiot” was coined with you personally in mind. .. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/274 "2011-02-23T18:41:29Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Glad to be of service! I don’t doubt it for a second. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/275 "2011-02-23T18:43:03Z")
[http://www.politicususa.com/en/rachel-maddow-walker-unions](http://www.politicususa.com/en/rachel-maddow-walker-unions) Walker was involved in union busting before. He fired all the prison guards and replaced them with Wackenhut private guards. He overstated budget problems, lied about the cost and acted unilaterally. Then once his actions were determined to be illegal, they had to reinstate the guards and give back pay. All he accomplished was to show super rich that he would do what they wanted. That is why they dumped so much money into his campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Burton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/276 "2011-02-23T19:12:13Z")
It’s incredibly obvious this is a opportunity to destroy the liberal leaning unions and weaken the Democratic party. As Michael Feldman says anyone who says otherwise is itchin’ for a fight. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/277 "2011-02-23T19:16:41Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > The term “useful idiot” was coined with you personally in mind. Unless I am very much mistaken, the term was coined by Lenin to describe liberals and _mensheviks_ who might be conned into supporting _bolshevik_ programs without realizing the despotism that was their actual goal. **Nadir** is supporting political monsters of the opposite stripe. If that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/278 "2011-02-23T19:19:08Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > The term “useful idiot” was coined with you personally in mind. I’m questioning his utility. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/279 "2011-02-23T19:24:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Unless I am very much mistaken, the term was coined by Lenin to describe liberals and _mensheviks_ who might be conned into supporting _bolshevik_ programs without realizing the despotism that was their actual goal. **Nadir** is supporting political monsters of the opposite stripe. If that matters. You’re very much mistake. Lenin just emailed me from 1917. He says he coined the phrase “regarding that Nadir fellow, the chump”, while going on to point out that he admired the way the Republicans have apparently gulled the nation into thinking the conflict has anything to do with Right vs. Left, or financial solvency for the state of Wisconsin. They don’t, you see, realize that despotism (in the form of Croesus-like wealth and unimpeded influence) is the actual goal. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/280 "2011-02-23T19:26:09Z")
> [@furlibusea](#): > > Sorry that sentence should have read " we need to get a bachelors degree, go through the hoops to maintain that degree, to be paid less than 5,000 dollars a year **more** than someone with an associates degree and **who** can pass the background check." Ah. And yes that sounds OK. If the person with an A.A. can do as good a job as me, I think he should get pretty much the same pay. > [@](#): > > According to John Hattie in his book _Visible Learning: A synthises of over 800 meta-analysies relating to achievement_ The meta-analysis of 537 studies looking at professional developnent, which graduate work would count as, the effects on student is an improvement of m= .63 where one standard deviation is = to 2 to 3 grade years of student achievement and .15 is the gain that students would make without doing much of anything. On the other hand, he says actual teacher certification programs come out to a .1. Well, obviously I don’t have the book in front to me, but looking at reviews, it seems he emphasizes the importance of learned teaching skills as opposed to acquired credentials. I have no idea what he counts as “professional development;” but that could just as easily include things like teaching workshops and the like. The point isn’t that teachers won’t benefit from development and training; of course they will. It’s that simply possessing a given slip of paper is no guarantee of actual learning or skill. Most employers might give you a modest bump in salary for getting another degree; they don’t typically give you a 20% boost unless you demonstrate a real improvement in skill/value. > [@](#): > > Actually MTEA, the largest union in the state, recently called for merit pay. Then again the devil is in the details. If it is based entirely, like everything else has been lately, on test scores, good luck in getting any teachers in special ed classes or in the urban schools. Maybe if we looked at gains students made in a year that would work. I don’t like the idea of basing it on gains in an IEP because I can pretty much see that as a big old incentive to not write them based on reality. To the extent teachers unions are beginning to accept merit pay, it’s because they’re bowing to immense political pressure that has been building for years, and they resisted for years. I have never heard of evaluations or merit pay based on raw scores – AFAIK, it’s always done on value-added basis. And yes, there are lots of different ways to do evaluation. Newer and better metrics are coming out; standardized testing is improving dramatically, and is moving well beyond fill-in-the-circle multiple-choice questions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=15)