# Govenor Scott Walker (R) WI **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743 "2011-02-17T20:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/321 "2011-02-23T23:29:28Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > I’m surprised this isn’t getting more attention. It appears to have been verified. > > [http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/02/governor\_walkers\_office\_confir.html](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/02/governor_walkers_office_confir.html) > > Walker is an idiot. There is the bit there where Walker appears to be laying a trap for his Democrat colleagues; luring them back with a promise to talk and then waiting for them to recess so he can declare quorum and push through bills without their presence. Then there is this little bit: > [@](#): > > 12:09 p.m.: Another key exchange: > > FAKE KOCH: What we were thinking about the crowds was, planting some troublemakers. > > WALKER: We thought about that. Is it illegal to contemplate planting “troublemakers” in a crowd of protesters? Or is it only illegal if you actually do it? Or is it merely unethical? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/322 "2011-02-23T23:50:45Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > I know it’s the pit, so calling “cite!” doesn’t have the same inevitability. But you offer nothing beyond your word for your assertions, including the relative salaries of school teachers in your state or their level of oppression. We’ll leave that an open question. Same for the role that collective bargaining had or did not have with respect to that level of compensation. You need a cite for the claim that Mississippi, South Carolina, and Georgia are heavily poor and black? or that poor minorities do worse on SATs? Are you serious? :dubious: > [@](#): > > As for the larger argument, that lack of collective bargaining correlates strongly with poor standardized measures of student success, you have not defeated it at all. You have though suggested what most any person would readily acknowledge, that the reasons for a state’s national ranking in measurements of this kind is complex and a result of many factors. But you have done nothing to prove that lack of collective bargaining is not one of those factors. Sorry, that’s not the way it works. I’m not the one making a claim; Whack-a-mole is (or, more precisely, he posted data and AFAICT implied the claim). > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Virginia has the [5th most number of millionaires](http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/109083/the-richest-states-in-america) in the country. > > [According to this](http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/16/news/economy/Americas_wealthiest_states/index.htm) Virginia is the 6th wealthiest state overall in the United States. > > From the same list just linked only North and South Carolina fall on the bottom ten. So Virginia, Georgia and Texas are not among the “poorest”. [Here’s](http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco_med_fam_inc-economy-median-family-income) all 50 states. Which end are those 5 states on? > [@](#): > > Texas, Georgia and North Carolina are in the [top ten](http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_tot_bla_pop-people-total-black-population) with the largest black populations. Virginia is #11, South Carolina #13. > > For [hispanic populations](http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_tot_his_pop-people-total-hispanic-population) Texas is way up there. North Carolina and Georgia are a distant #10 & 11. Virginia is back at #16 and South Carolina way back at #35. Yeah, New York and Florida have the highest total black population. Who’d a thunk?:rolleyes: Looking at the far more meaningful [per capita](http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_his_and_lat_ame_pop_per-hispanic-latino-americans-population-percentage), the Carolinas, Georgia and Virginia are all top ten. Texas is middle of the pack, but obviously heavily hispanic. > [@](#): > > Is there a reason rural kids do worse than, say, inner city kids in school? Cite? Do better in school != SAT scores. This is not as well known or as strongly correlated, but it’s there. e.g. [Rural PA - Page Not Found: 404 - Center for Rural PA](http://www.rural.palegislature.us/news0706.html#8) Lots of other factors influence SAT scores: first in family to attend college, immigrant status, etc. etc. But again, I wasn’t the one making the claim. If you want to seriously argue that the biggest influence on aggregate SAT scores is a state’s collective-bargaining status … well, I’m gonna laugh at you and tell you to have a nice night. Which I have to do anyway. > [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > To be fair he is just talking about correlation, not causation. Lower test scores may be correlated with large black and/or hispannic populations, but it doesn’t imply it is caused by some innate characteristic of being black or hispanic. Of course. Lower SAT scores may also be correlated with higher precipitation for all I know. It’s up to the person claiming causation to prove it. G’night. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/323 "2011-02-24T03:31:17Z")
You know, there’s a perfectly good way to handle things if you think your unionized public employees are overpaid that doesn’t involve making collective bargaining illegal. You do the same thing that the private sector does - you put forward a contract proposal that reduces their compensation and stick to it in the subsequent bargaining, strikes, etc. until the union signs it. Let’s face it, how much ultimate power does a union have in bargaining with an employer who can use the big club of passing laws to force implementation of a contract. This is a blatant attempt to union bust. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/324 "2011-02-24T05:05:50Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > So, I have to ask – how did this guy get elected? Why didn’t his Democratic opponents bring all this up in fiery red letters during the election? The Koch brothers spent something like $3.4 million on TV commercials during the election to discredit the Democratic nominee, Tom Barrett. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/325 "2011-02-24T05:09:57Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > You know, there’s a perfectly good way to handle things if you think your unionized public employees are overpaid that doesn’t involve making collective bargaining illegal. You do the same thing that the private sector does - you put forward a contract proposal that reduces their compensation and stick to it in the subsequent bargaining, strikes, etc. until the union signs it. Let’s face it, how much ultimate power does a union have in bargaining with an employer who can use the big club of passing laws to force implementation of a contract. This is a blatant attempt to union bust. To be fair, union contract disputes might have to be elevated to the NLRB for arbitration. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/326 "2011-02-24T11:11:00Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Whew, so much to catch up on this late in the thread: > > Well there ya go - be careful what you ask for… > > Public worker unions all over the country have been getting a free ride. No, they are not all getting it, and it varies by specific location and union, etc. But there are alot of them out there. If this is the only way to to bring them around, then so be it. Private sector workers generally pay quite a bit more for health insurance and traditional pension plans have basically gone extinct. There is nothing just or right about the scam many unions have been running on the taxpayer dime. The first five hours over 40 is free at my company. Wisconsin public workers would die of a stroke if that were suggested. > > The gravy train has come to an end in Wisconsin. The dems know their shit is in the wind and there is nothing they can do about it, so they run away like the cowardly little children they are - total shitbags. Get with the program. > > Birds of a feather, and a forgone conclusion for the most part, AFAIK. > > You are confused about this being two seperate issues. They are closely tied. The conclusion has been drawn that one significantly supports the other, and alot of people seem to agree on that - not just the Governor. > > What, no marketing money in the budget? > > See: Call of the house (compelled attendance). Those bastards are shirking their responsibility and should be subject to censure and any other punishment deemed appropritae by their peers. > > Exactly - ancient history. Unions are an anachronism with little value in today’s economy. They have in fact demonstrated intense negative economic pressure over the past thirty odd years. It’s not about the workers any more. It’s about failing companies and governments. > > You need to get that. > > It makes sense if you don’t think about it. > > I’d only argue that it is a big step in the right direction. > > Good for him. But your myopic, poor widdle sob story is alas, irrelevant to the much larger issue of Wisconsin’s solvency. Every body’s got a story. Sorry, but it ain’t payin’ the bills, honey. :rolleyes: You’re a compassionless and empty-headed shitstain, so no wonder you’re attacking people and defending another greedy, dishonest shitstain like walker. Failing companies? Since Citizens United corporations have been buying politicians like a busy prostitute buys condoms. You’re whining about rich scumbags and attacking poor working people. Vile. ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/327 "2011-02-24T11:42:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If you want to argue that this hides the fact that the bottom 49% makes 10K/year while the top 51% makes 58K/year then fine but absent some evidence of this sort of skew, I think we can compare the medians and come to some tentative positions. That was my main point. Most reporting on medians and other averages\* never bothers to see if it does skew the underlying data, and rather than using them as a starting point for policy discussions, too many use them as the end point, especially populists. They are a reference point, nothing more. It can provide a gauge for determining the effects of a policy, but are useless for the actual construction of those policies. And it is rare that medians don’t skew the data when it referring to income and wages. * * * I wonder what else is being buried in all the other legislation being proposed in Wisconsin and all the other states attacking unions. I think the Koch brothers (shorthand for all the conservative assholes out there, the Kochs are just the bankers, I doubt even they came up with this all on their own) want to bust the unions, but also use it as cover for the rest of their agenda. The non-conservatives end up saving the unions only to see a dozen other protections gutted. Dark days for the republic. I am waiting for Chancellor Palpatine to show up… AP \*I swear this subject is what turns more people off of stats than any other: “What? There is more than one average? This stuff is obviously BS” - and this is the simple stuff (as far as stats are concerned - t tests were, and still are my bane.) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/328 "2011-02-24T12:48:07Z")
> [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](#): > > The Koch brothers spent something like $3.4 million on TV commercials during the election to discredit the Democratic nominee, Tom Barrett. But it still doesn’t answer my question – why didn’t this aspect of Walker’s past show up in _Democratic_ campaign advertising? or did it, and it was simply ignored? ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/329 "2011-02-24T15:01:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There are protests all over the state, bitch. Walker is like Mubarak now. He’ll be lucky to escape with his life. I’ve only recently found this thread - I haven’t been on the dope much lately, but this bumblefuck in Madison brought me here to get an opposing view to Fox News on the issue. Dio, you and I have had disagreements about Vikings/Packers and about whether or not Favre is or was a deity. But, I just want to applaud this post. I lol’d. 😃 I’m only on page two, but I wanted to comment before I got to the end and had to find it again. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/330 "2011-02-24T15:27:10Z")
saw in the news: this budget repair bill threatens mass transit in cities and counties. federal aid to mass transit is only available to systems that have collective bargaining. systems would have to be cut in size or may become unable to continue if that happens. if state aid to cities and counties is eliminated if workers in those units have collective bargaining then cities and counties have to choose between state aid or federal aid. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/331 "2011-02-24T15:56:32Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > There is the bit there where Walker appears to be laying a trap for his Democrat colleagues; luring them back with a promise to talk and then waiting for them to recess so he can declare quorum and push through bills without their presence. > > Then there is this little bit: > > Is it illegal to contemplate planting “troublemakers” in a crowd of protesters? Or is it only illegal if you actually do it? Or is it merely unethical? He even goes on to say that not only did they think about it, but were afraid that it may backfire - which is why they didn’t do it. They feared that if the protests got violent that they may be forced to back down from their position just to restore order. Which leads me to believe that if they thought instigating violence in the protests would help their cause, they would certianly do it. Asshats. It just pisses me off that I still gotta watch Walker commercials bemoaning those greedy teachers and how they refuse to pay their fair share. It’s bullshit. It’s about collective bargaining - nothing else. The 14 Dems that are hiding out said that they would be happy to come back and vote on the heathcare and retirement issues, if Walker removed the collective bargaining caveats from the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/332 "2011-02-24T16:05:54Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > …you put forward a contract proposal that reduces their compensation and stick to it in the subsequent bargaining, strikes, etc. until the union signs it. This is all well and good. What happens in the meantime… > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > To be fair, union contract disputes might have to be elevated to the NLRB for arbitration. As the state suffers through weeks, months maybe years of nonsense with nothing ever getting accomplished, the status quo carried forward in some insignificantly modified way. Wisconsin could eventually become the new model for Federal bureaucracy. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/333 "2011-02-24T16:11:59Z")
IMO this is a chickenshit move by the runaway legislators. It’s like the kid that doesn’t like losing and takes his ball and runs home. They were voted in and are paid to be there and do their job. If they don’t want to do their job they should resign or be removed from that job. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/334 "2011-02-24T16:18:31Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > saw in the news: > > this budget repair bill threatens mass transit in cities and counties. federal aid to mass transit is only available to systems that have collective bargaining. systems would have to be cut in size or may become unable to continue if that happens. > > if state aid to cities and counties is eliminated if workers in those units have collective bargaining then cities and counties have to choose between state aid or federal aid. Since Walker as county board president (or whatever his formal title was) of Milwaukee County has been trying to gut the Milwaukee bus system for years, and blocking any effort to have a rail system, the proponents of the bill probably consider that a feature and not a bug. :mad: Walker doesn’t **want** Wisconsin to accept federal aid for any transport mode except highways and airports. :rolleyes: Unlike this union-busting business, that was something he **was** quite open about in his gubernatorial campaign. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/335 "2011-02-24T16:19:46Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > IMO this is a chickenshit move by the runaway legislators. It’s like the kid that doesn’t like losing and takes his ball and runs home. They were voted in and are paid to be there and do their job. If they don’t want to do their job they should resign or be removed from that job. It is always good to have a simplistic, shallow analysis of a complex situation, if only to provide a benchmark to measure against the more intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/336 "2011-02-24T16:21:59Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > IMO this is a chickenshit move by the runaway legislators. It’s like the kid that doesn’t like losing and takes his ball and runs home. They were voted in and are paid to be there and do their job. If they don’t want to do their job they should resign or be removed from that job. They ARE doing their job. They are protecting their constituents. This is what they were elected to to do. Elections have consequences. Suck it. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/337 "2011-02-24T16:29:17Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > IMO this is a chickenshit move by the runaway legislators. I’d characterize it more as gross malfeasance. Hopefully they are just dumb enough to have overlooked the clause in the state constitution or some law that gets them canned. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/338 "2011-02-24T16:29:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They ARE doing their job. They are protecting their constituents. This is what they were elected to to do. Elections have consequences. Suck it. No it is their job to be there and vote on the legislation. If they don’t like it fine, get a majority in the future and overturn it. Same thing Publicans want to do with national healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/339 "2011-02-24T16:32:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It is always good to have a simplistic, shallow analysis of a complex situation, if only to provide a benchmark to measure against the more intelligent. You can cut this issue apart a million ways and debate till you’re blue in the…fingers, but I look at the big picture. The legislators should not be allowed to get away with what they’re doing regardless of the issues involved. It’s not like it’s life and death we’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/340 "2011-02-24T16:35:44Z")
I shudder when people quote Diaperboy the Cynic. The ignore function is great, except for that. But I’m bored at work as usual, so… Sounds like his idea about Legislator’s duties squares pretty well with ideas about driving in the left lane. This is to say, completely bereft of fact, logic or common sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=18)