# Govenor Scott Walker (R) WI **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743 "2011-02-17T20:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/601 "2011-02-27T20:24:31Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > The simple fact of the matter is this. Teacher’s unions and arbitrators are both paid from the public coffers as stated superslug. When they (the unions) want more pay, they go before an arbitrator that is paid for by the public. The public government selects the arbitrator and the union will agree if the arbitrator is seen as friendly to unions. The kicker here is that the unions pay large sums of money to influence politicians. So, to pay the unions back for their electoral support, the arbitrator to be used is often a bit to friendly and the result is unrealistic compensation that the unions receive for their members. > > It is flat out extortion. The unions give the politicians money because they KNOW they will get something in return. I get it that you are indeed ignoring recent news, and also the reasons why we got unions like the teacher’s one. [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/magazine/23Race-t.html?pagewanted=all](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/magazine/23Race-t.html?pagewanted=all) > [@](#): > > Before they successfully organized in the 1950s and 1960s, teachers endured meager salaries, political favoritism, tyrannical principals and sex discrimination against a mostly female work force. It’s that sense of needing to stick together against real or potential mistreatment by management, plus a sincere — and accurate — belief that most teachers do teach for reasons beyond simply making a living, that drives Mulgrew and other union leaders. There’s also the reality that their own power comes from making sure that the all-for-one-one-for-all contract that they negotiate remains the determining factor in a teacher’s professional life. > > Nonetheless, almost all the states that submitted first-round applications proposed school reforms that a year ago would have been seen as pushing beyond what the teachers’ unions would allow. Some moved further than others either because the lure of the Race to the Top money trumped the unions’ opposition, or because political leaders and educators were able to persuade union leaders to get on the train instead of standing in front of it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/602 "2011-02-27T20:26:17Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > Walker has a very specific role to play, and it is the elimination of the right of collective bargaining of most public employees. Concessions are a guarantee, because the state can not continue to fund the salary and benefit packages at current levels. Something will have to give, and you can bet it will be in the form of layoffs. What Walker is trying to do, is eliminate the problem for the future and that problem is the union. Instead, Walker wants the public to decide what teachers are paid. Imagine that, the public gets to decide what the public does wth it’s money. Novel concept. A concept that more than 60% of Wisconsin is opposed now, what a novel concept. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/603 "2011-02-27T20:30:25Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > Keep up with the labels, it makes your argument so much better. It does, because thanks to what you are saying it allows others to see your ignorance and foolishness. We could not do it without your help. 🙂 :snipped just a repetition of an argument by The Bodhi where he is clearly thinking that it will become true just by repeating it.: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bodhi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f14d63/32.png) [@The\_Bodhi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bodhi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/604 "2011-02-27T20:39:53Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I get it that you are indeed ignoring recent news, and also the reasons why we got unions like the teacher’s one. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/magazine/23Race-t.html?pagewanted=all](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/magazine/23Race-t.html?pagewanted=all) I am not ignoring anything. All you are doing is proving that teacher’s unions, while needed in the past, have done nothing more than rape the system financially until it became apparent that the system could not support the bloated behemoth the unions had become. At that point and only then, were they ready to concede anything. Well guess what, they were going to give in whether they wanted to or not. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/605 "2011-02-27T20:43:29Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > I am not ignoring anything. All you are doing is proving that teacher’s unions, while needed in the past, have done nothing more than rape the system financially until it became apparent that the system could not support the bloated behemoth the unions had become. At that point and only then, were they ready to concede anything. And that is happening indeed, but it is clear to many that the solution is exaggerated or overreaching. > [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > Well guess what, they were going to give in whether they wanted to or not. Guess what, that is part of negotiating when confronted by serious problems, the current issue here is that Walker with his intransigence has made the problem even worse. **Other places like Colorado demonstrated to all that we can get concessions without the scorched earth solution that Walker proposes**. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bodhi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f14d63/32.png) [@The\_Bodhi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bodhi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/606 "2011-02-27T20:44:38Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > A concept that more than 60% of Wisconsin is opposed now, what a novel concept. Better reread the USA today, it was 61% of the nation, not WI. According to the Examiner, 48% of a nationwide poll support Walker, while 38% support the unions. [http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/new-poll-public-sides-wisconsin-governor-over-union](http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/new-poll-public-sides-wisconsin-governor-over-union) Have yet to see a poll other than the initial from only likely voters in WI say anything other than support for Walker. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bodhi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f14d63/32.png) [@The\_Bodhi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bodhi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/607 "2011-02-27T20:45:40Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It does, because thanks to what you are saying it allows others to see your ignorance and foolishness. We could not do it without your help. 🙂 > > :snipped just a repetition of an argument by The Bodhi where he is clearly thinking that it will become true just by repeating it.: Again, you and your labels… makes your argument so much better… lol ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/608 "2011-02-27T20:47:58Z")
Walker is giving his state away to the Koch brothers. That’s the bottom line. As governor, he’s supposed to work for the people of Wisconsin. He doesn’t. He works for Koch Industries. The only real difference between him and 99% of the other Republican politicians in this country is that Walker is too stupid to hide it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/609 "2011-02-27T20:51:20Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > Better reread the USA today, it was 61% of the nation, not WI. > > According to the Examiner, 48% of a nationwide poll support Walker, while 38% support the unions. > > [http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/new-poll-public-sides-wisconsin-governor-over-union](http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/new-poll-public-sides-wisconsin-governor-over-union) > Have yet to see a poll other than the initial from only likely voters in WI say anything other than support for Walker. You have a point that the support is not in Wisconsin, but that is in America, the way I see it, it shows me that you are willing to win a battle but not the war. However, when one looks at the main issue, the bargaining rights, the support is not there in Wisconsin. > **[Walker's Over-Reach, Ctd](https://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2011/02/walkers-over-reach-ctd/175201/)** > [@](#): > > Walker’s Over-Reach, Ctd > > 27 Feb 2011 01:07 pm > > Dick Morris’s latest poll shows Wisonsin voters where the Dish is - in favor of Walker’s specific requests of public sector unions, **but unwilling to remove most collective bargaining rights.** By slipping this collective bargaining provision into the bill - something he did not campaign on - Walker has blundered. Moreover, this measure would presumably be the most fatal to his opponents anyway: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > By 54-34, Wisconsin voters support ending the automatic deduction of union dues from state paychecks and support making unions collect dues from each member. > > > > ``` > > In a poll reliant on Rasmussen’s pro-GOP skewed sample, we get the following result: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > **More than half (56%) of respondents said Wisconsin state workers should have collective bargaining power. Just 32% sided with Walker and said state workers should not be allowed to collectively negotiate benefits and other compensation. > > > > ``` > > > > \*\* > > Almost identical. Why doesn’t Walker concede on collective bargaining, declare victory and move on? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/610 "2011-02-27T20:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > …A concept that more than 60% of Wisconsin is opposed now, what a novel concept. Which is probably why, when you look over Walker’s campaign speeches and political statements, you find no reference whatsoever to breaking the unions. He wanted it to be a surprise! What a guy! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/611 "2011-02-27T20:54:08Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > Again, you and your labels… makes your argument so much better… lol As the latest poll evidence says, yes, you are an ignoramus. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/612 "2011-02-27T20:54:14Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > Better reread the USA today, it was 61% of the nation, not WI. > > According to the Examiner, 48% of a nationwide poll support Walker, while 38% support the unions. > > [http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/new-poll-public-sides-wisconsin-governor-over-union](http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/new-poll-public-sides-wisconsin-governor-over-union) > Have yet to see a poll other than the initial from only likely voters in WI say anything other than support for Walker. I suppose you don’t realize that the poll you cited is a Rasmussen Poll from a week ago, right? Remember Rasmussen, those guys who consistently skew Republican? Remember? Think hard. And it’s from a week ago. Jesus, I just want a smart god-damned Republican. Can we just get one smart fucking Republican to argue issues in Great Debates? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/613 "2011-02-27T20:56:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Which is probably why, when you look over Walker’s campaign speeches and political statements, you find no reference whatsoever to breaking the unions. He wanted it to be a surprise! What a guy! What I see is that most of the people in Wisconsin are in favor of cutting most benefits, but not on removing unions nor eliminating bargaining rights. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/614 "2011-02-27T20:56:39Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > Have yet to see a poll other than the initial from only likely voters in WI say anything other than support for Walker. Here are two new polls that show likely voters oppose Walker’s plan to eliminate collective bargaining: [54-41% against Walker.](http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/the-dick-morris-poll-on-wisconsin/) [56-32% against Walker](http://www.franklincenterhq.org/2200/poll-shows-71-of-wisconsinites-think-walker%e2%80%99s-budget-changes-are-%e2%80%9cfair%e2%80%9d/) Let’s hear no more about the discredited Rasmussen poll. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bodhi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f14d63/32.png) [@The\_Bodhi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bodhi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/615 "2011-02-27T20:57:01Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I suppose you don’t realize that the poll you cited is a Rasmussen Poll from a week ago, right? > > Remember Rasmussen, those guys who consistently skew Republican? Remember? Think hard. And it’s from a week ago. Jesus, I just want a smart god-damned Republican. Can we just get one smart fucking Republican to argue issues in Great Debates? You have still yet to provide a proof other than two selected demographics that prove Rasmussen is the worst. Polls get it wrong from time to time, Rasmussen (in the links you provided) was listed as better than average otherwise. Perhaps a little reading comprehension refresher course is something you should look into. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bodhi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f14d63/32.png) [@The\_Bodhi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bodhi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/616 "2011-02-27T21:00:23Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Here are two new polls that show likely voters oppose Walker’s plan to eliminate collective bargaining: > > [54-41% against Walker.](http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/the-dick-morris-poll-on-wisconsin/) > [56-32% against Walker](http://www.franklincenterhq.org/2200/poll-shows-71-of-wisconsinites-think-walker%e2%80%99s-budget-changes-are-%e2%80%9cfair%e2%80%9d/) From your very links: ANALYSIS: Voters back the principal of collective bargaining. But they are also willing to limit these negotiations so that they would not impede education reforms. For Governor Walker to prevail, he must focus on his goal of achieving reform in schools. He will not prevail as long as his proposal is essentially negative in nature (i.e. limiting collective bargaining). But if he emphasizes the positive intent that lies behind the proposal (i.e. giving schools the flexibility and freedom to implement education reforms), he will find a solid public majority behind him. > [@](#): > > Let’s hear no more about the discredited Rasmussen poll. In two selected demographics for the polls in 2010, Rasmussen was off by 5.8%. Hardly discrediting anything. You find something that takes the plurality of all their polls as being worse than the others and you might have something. Instead, you cling to a false truth. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/617 "2011-02-27T21:01:16Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > You have still yet to provide a proof other than two selected demographics that prove Rasmussen is the worst. Polls get it wrong from time to time, Rasmussen (in the links you provided) was listed as better than average otherwise. > > Perhaps a little reading comprehension refresher course is something you should look into. If you ignore evidence why bother to debate? You don’t want your beliefs to \*be \*right, you want them to \*seem \*right. **Protip:** If you have to constantly lie and ignore facts to support beliefs, change your fucking beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/618 "2011-02-27T21:01:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Jesus, I just want a smart god-damned Republican. Can we just get one smart fucking Republican to argue issues in Great Debates? Well, this is the Pit not GD. The levels of ignorance that they have are clearly willful in nature, but then people like him are good to show others how the right wing echo chamber can mislead clueless people. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/619 "2011-02-27T21:02:05Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > Wow, I will give you one thing, you surely have an interesting imagination. You just go on convincing yourself that I am (and obviously anyone’s viewpoint who differs) and convincing yourself that you are great. It makes it all the more fun when I can debate something and you can just spout foolishness as though it backs up your point. Well, you could just, like, tell us. Do you know the other guys in the Inane Clone Posse? Was your group arrival merely a coincidence? Or some form of outreach from Weird Nut Daily? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/620 "2011-02-27T21:04:10Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > From your very links: > > ANALYSIS: Voters back the principal of collective bargaining. But they are also willing to limit these negotiations so that they would not impede education reforms. So you admit likely voters oppose Walker’s plan to completely abandon collective bargaining? If we can agree on that, we can move on to what kind of reform is necessary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=32)