# Govenor Scott Walker (R) WI **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743 "2011-02-17T20:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/621 "2011-02-27T21:06:03Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > From your very links: > > ANALYSIS: Voters back the principal of collective bargaining. But they are also willing to limit these negotiations so that they would not impede education reforms. > > For Governor Walker to prevail, he must focus on his goal of achieving reform in schools. He will not prevail as long as his proposal is essentially negative in nature (i.e. limiting collective bargaining). But if he emphasizes the positive intent that lies behind the proposal (i.e. giving schools the flexibility and freedom to implement education reforms), he will find a solid public majority behind him. Walker is not following your advise, his tactic is an scorched earth one. In the short run, he may likely succeed, in the long run he will not care that he will sink the republicans on the next election. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/622 "2011-02-27T21:07:06Z")
> [@The\_Bodhi](#): > > In two selected demographics for the polls in 2010, Rasmussen was off by 5.8%. Hardly discrediting anything. Rasmussen was dead last among comparable pollsters. Dead last. Utterly and completely discredited. Cease flogging that expired equine. ---
**Author:** ![Assi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@Assi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Assi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/623 "2011-02-27T21:14:02Z")
Since when did polls matter. The Messiah ushered in an era of change. Now those who won can proclaim,“Elections have Consequences” Shove it down their throats like the health care bill was shoved down mine. There’s always 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/624 "2011-02-27T21:16:54Z")
> [@Assi](#): > > Since when did polls matter. > > The Messiah ushered in an era of change. > > Now those who won can proclaim,“Elections have Consequences” > > Shove it down their throats like the health care bill was shoved down mine. > > There’s always 2012. The Health Care Bill was voted in with a supermajority. The only thing being shoved down your throat are the talking points that you substitute for thinking. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/625 "2011-02-27T21:23:00Z")
And that has to be carefully done. Shove too hard, too long, and they travel all the way down and out the rectum, spattering an innocent message board. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/626 "2011-02-27T21:34:32Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > When both the employees and the arbitrators are paid from public money it can not be in the public interest. > > In fact, what we are talking about is a self-perpetuating machine where the unions pay millions of dollars to elect union friendly politicians who in turn grant pay and benefit increases to ensure future support. > > How could that arrangement possibly be good for the public? But in this case you have David Koch donating heavily enough to Walker to be given phone access to him despite claims that Walker wasn’t talking to anyone as revealed by The Buffalo Beast. You also have David Koch and his brother donating millions to anti-union causes. That’s potential evidence of bias in the other direction. You have private citizens paying millions of dollars to elect union hostile politicians who in turn take away collective bargaining rights. I dare say that the bias is at a wash here, though I would personally give more weight to the unions, who represent groups of workers vs. the Koch brothers who represent themselves at this point. A large group of people is simply more of the public than two people. Also it would seem that the Wisconsin government is rather anti-union at present which I would think means that negotiating with the unions would be easier for them without needing to take away collective bargaining rights. This would be evidenced by the Wisconsin public unions agreeing to all but the removal of collective bargaining rights. Simply put, negotiators need to grow a pair and not simply cave to the unions. That’s my thoughts at least. Do you agree or disagree? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/627 "2011-02-27T21:42:05Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > …A large group of people is simply more of the public than two people… Not in America, Mr. Pinko Commie Trotskypants! Money talks everywhere, but in America it _votes_. Which got me wondering, the whole thing about two guys against a bunch of other people. Suppose you were working from the bottom up, including any and all sources of income. Lets say on one end to the balance you have the Kochs, and all their holdings, making roughly 22.3 godzillabucks. How many Americans could you pile on the other side before they balanced out. In other words, the Koch Brothers themselves have more money than (unknown number) Americans? What is the largest number of Americans you could add before you would exceed their personal wealth? What? A million? Ten? Twenty? ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/628 "2011-02-27T21:53:30Z")
> [@Ring](#): > > From Time Magazine’s editorial: > > > [@](#): > > > > …TIME contributor Amanda Ripley takes a deeper look at this idea and observes that pretty much every job in America has increased standards of productivity over the past 20 years — except those in the public sector. As I pointed out in another thread: > [@Governor Scott Walker just sealed his own fate](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/106): > > That’s a really disingenuous point for anyone who knows about [Baumol’s Cost Disease](http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/taxes/americas-economic-illness-baumols-dis/19752285/). From the [Wikipedia page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol's_cost_disease): > > > [@](#): > > > > Baumol’s cost disease is often used to describe the lack of growth in productivity in public services such as public hospitals and state colleges. Since many public administration activities are heavily labor-intensive there is little growth in productivity over time because productivity gains come essentially from a better capital technology. > > Not that Ms. Ripley is necessarily aware of Baumol’s work; I have no idea. But if not, someone should make her aware of it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/629 "2011-02-27T22:05:00Z")
As well, I get instantly wary when I hear “productivity” being bandied about. I’m sure the average sweatshop is very productive, very low labor costs, high output. An enterprise with empowered, valued, and healthy workers, probably not so much. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/630 "2011-02-27T22:24:32Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > That’s my thoughts at least. Do you agree or disagree? First voice of reason I’ve heard here. But… Arbitration among public employees is a conflict of the public’s interest. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/631 "2011-02-27T22:52:02Z")
Well, that certainly settles that! How many of these fundamental dogma have you to deliver? Perhaps we could have them all at once, save some time? And shouldn’t they be preceded with “It is Written”? Really pretty much the only way a simple, unsupported declarative sentence could be thought to have some weight as an argument. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/632 "2011-02-27T23:00:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, that certainly settles that! How many of these fundamental dogma have you to deliver? Perhaps we could have them all at once, save some time? And shouldn’t they be preceded with “It is Written”? Really pretty much the only way a simple, unsupported declarative sentence could be thought to have some weight as an argument. Dogma how? How is stating that allowing politicians to buy votes with taxpayer money why also allowing confiscated union dues to be used to bribe same said politicians bad business considered “dogma”? Do you even know what the word means? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/633 "2011-02-27T23:32:05Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Dogma how? How is stating that allowing politicians to buy votes with taxpayer money why also allowing confiscated union dues to be used to bribe same said politicians bad business considered “dogma”? > > Do you even know what the word means? ' **luci** knows more about everything than you, kid. How about a cite to back up any of your crazy claims? A cite that can stand up to scrutiny? Otherwise, what he is saying is that your statements amount to a [bare assertion fallacy.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipse-dixitism) IOW, you can’t be taken seriously. ETA:Care to respond to my previous statement? I don’t think you can. > [@](#): > > Nobody from your side has been able to make a clear case how gutting the unions balances the books- especially since Walker’s actions appear to have deliberately\* unbalanced\* the books, apparently for the express purpose of fomenting a crisis to take advantage of in this way. ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/634 "2011-02-27T23:49:19Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > How is stating that allowing politicians to buy votes with taxpayer money why also allowing confiscated union dues to be used to bribe same said politicians bad business considered “dogma”? I am sure if you have any evidence of bribery you will be contacting your local prosecutors office. If you object to public sector unions using treasury funds for campaign ads and other lobbying purposes, then you would have no problem with a ban on lobbying by corporations that receive government contracts? Of course the only way to do so since _Citizens United_ would appear to be a constitutional amendment. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/635 "2011-02-28T00:36:18Z")
So, anyway, none of you guys ever met anywhere before, either in cyber or meat space? So your arrival here in rougly the same time frame is sheer coincidence? Is there some reason you can’t tell us? ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/636 "2011-02-28T00:48:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, anyway, none of you guys ever met anywhere before, either in cyber or meat space? So your arrival here in rougly the same time frame is sheer coincidence? Is there some reason you can’t tell us? Why are you so paranoid? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/637 "2011-02-28T00:51:02Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Why are you so paranoid? Because three singularly stupid, uninformed and angry posters zeroing in on the same day is unlikely. Although uninformed stupidity is sort of the prerequisite to gain entry to the right nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/638 "2011-02-28T00:54:46Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because three singularly stupid, uninformed and angry posters zeroing in on the same day is unlikely. Four. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/639 "2011-02-28T00:55:39Z")
> [@Agnostic\_Pagan](#): > > I am sure if you have any evidence of bribery you will be contacting your local prosecutors office. > > If you object to public sector unions using treasury funds for campaign ads and other lobbying purposes, then you would have no problem with a ban on lobbying by corporations that receive government contracts? > > Of course the only way to do so since _Citizens United_ would appear to be a constitutional amendment. Why would anyone promote squelching any private citizen’s first amendment rights? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/640 "2011-02-28T00:57:02Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Why are you so paranoid? Not so paranoid as those who find informed discussion something that must be disrupted by any means necessary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=33)