# Govenor Scott Walker (R) WI **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743 "2011-02-17T20:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/843 "2011-03-02T18:58:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why do you believe that government employees should not have collective bargaining rights? Because, whaaa, collective barganing, whaaa, goes against, whaaa, public, whaaa, interest, whaaa. Seriously, this one trick pony has no reason to believe it. It’s just the clap-trap he’s been spoon fed, and he doesn’t have an independent thought in his whole body. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/844 "2011-03-02T19:09:42Z")
Sam Stone: I agree with many of the subsidies you recommend for cutting. Yet you know who will scream the most if the U.S. government, quite rightfully, IMO, axes the ethanol subsidy? It will be Archer-Daniels Midland and a bunch of conservative Midwestern farmers (who are practically millionaires anyway). It won’t be the liberals. And Sully is quite right. Even if the public unions are dismantled, companies are going to continue to try to go overseas. Historically, the U.S. has always had high wages compared to most other countries. We Americans like it that way. Oh, and your man Mitch? Here in Indiana he recently tried to get the state to, once again quite wisely IMO, eliminate the state’s archaic and costly township trustee system. Guess what? A GOP-controlled General Assembly voted to keep them, thereby wasting more taxpayer dollars. Yet Hoosier Republicans insist it’s the teachers unions who are the real problem. Republicans object to government spending only if it benefits someone else. They’ll keep any useless program (DARE and abstinence-only sex education spring to mind) if they like it or it puts money in their pocket. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/845 "2011-03-02T19:17:12Z")
> [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](#): > > Republicans object to government spending only if it benefits someone else. They’ll keep any useless program (DARE and abstinence-only sex education spring to mind) if they like it or it puts money in their pocket. Or puts votes in their column. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/846 "2011-03-02T19:50:51Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Or puts votes in their column. Or takes votes away from the other columns. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/847 "2011-03-02T20:13:09Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You will have to do all of those things. So long as we’re clear that ‘the rich’ aren’t going to provide more than a small fraction of the adjustments that need to be made. Eliminating the capital gains rate preference and bumping up the top marginal rate to 50% would supply a LARGE fraction of what we need to reach fiscal sustainability. > [@](#): > > And absolutely you’re going to have to raise the retirement age, cut back on SS and Medicare benefits, and probably means-test these programs and add co-pays and such. Social security is more or less solvent if we eliminate the cap and apply it to deferred compensation as well. Medicare and medicaid are lost causes, go with stripped down single payer system (HDHP type of system) and let people buy private insurance for the gap. if you want to provide more help to poor people then provide vouchers for health insurance the way we do with food stamps. > [@](#): > > If you think the unions are losing support of the public now, wait until the government tells everyone else that they have to retire at 68, while public union people are still taking 70% pensions at age 59. Or you could increase taxes instead of gutting social security. > [@](#): > > So like it or not, the days of cushy benefits and job security for public sector workers are about to come to an end. Your choice as Democrats is whether you want to get on board with the process and held manage a transition that provides the least pain possible, or whether you want to fall in lockstep behind the unions and kick and scream at every change until the day of reckoning, at which point you will have no input whatsoever, and the pain will be sudden and sharp. We should be getting rid of waste no matter what. If you idnetify waste then get rid of it but don’t use anecdote of government waste and assume that all government is waste. > [@](#): > > There are no other options. Yes there are. > [@](#): > > My point with those last posts was to counter the typical brush-off that ‘the rich’ can take it on the chin for once instead of the poor working man. That’s the shell game the unions generally play, but the math just doesn’t work. You can tax the rich all you want, but at the end of the day the reality of the situation will be unchanged. You can’t do it SOLELY on the backs of the rich but the rich can stand to bear a larger protion of the burden. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/848 "2011-03-02T20:17:04Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > amtrak. OK so you can name one that is arguably a failure (I think AMTRAK would be just fine if we could corrdinate with freight rail carriers) and i can anme two taht were inarguably great boons to America and you categorically say that large transportation projects are always failures? One of us does not understand the meaning of the word always. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/849 "2011-03-02T20:19:44Z")
Damuri Ajashi: Don’t forget the canal system of the early 1800’s. There are not many canals left, but it made a helluva difference then. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/850 "2011-03-02T20:32:03Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Tell you what - I’d support you if you agreed to the same deal Canada did to get its fiscal house in order - we raised taxes and cut spending, but we cut $7 in spending for every dollar in tax we raised. And that’s about the ratio you’re going to need if you’re only going to raise taxes on the rich. Get 80 billion from them, cut 560 billion in government spending, and you’re approaching a balanced budget in a few years. Historically our budget has been about 20% of GDP, our taxes have hsitorically also been about 20% of GDP. Right now we are at 24% of GDP spending and 14 % of GDP taxing. It seems to me that a 1 to 1 ratio makes a lot more sense. > [@](#): > > You do know that the top 5% of the population pays more in income tax than the bottom 95%, right? That’s despite having only about 30% of the income. That’s also why you’re going to have a hard time bleeding them for a whole lot more. Even the 20% extra I granted is likely to be far more than is politically feasible. Yes we have a progressive tax system. > **[Page Not Found - Search - National Taxpayers Union](https://www.ntu.org/search/pnf)** And the system can be a lot more progressive. It can certainly be at least as progressive as what we had under Clinton. > [@](#): > > It’s a global world now, and the trend everywhere else is to lower taxes on business and individuals alike. The U.S. is bucking the tide. There’s a limit to how far you can go. The people who make the highest incomes in teh US like to pretend taht they could just move somewhere else and make just as much money but this is bullshit. They are making as much money as they do because they are in America (while this is not always the case the notiont hat we have to give the rich tax breaks to keep them from elaving the country is retarded. The entrepreneur that is getting wealthy through the application of hard work to his innovative new idea wouldn’t make anywhere near that kind of money in Latvia (or Canada for that matter). But the rich have somehow convinced politicians that they are all willing to move to Nevis to avoid a 3% hike in their income tax. > [@](#): > > Oh, and… The Koch Brothers? Seriously? What a useless meme. I guess Rush and Beck and Palin have been too quiet lately, and you’ve got to have _someone_ to be the bogeyman. The Koch brothers have been around as long as the CATO institute, theya re getting highly involved again because they see an opportunity to support the first Libertarian friendly movement that we have seen in this country and they are willing to do whatever it takes to keep it going. This includes everything from selling out the integrity of the CATO institute to collaborating with people who want to put government in your bedrooms. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/851 "2011-03-02T20:35:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > OK so you can name one that is arguably a failure (I think AMTRAK would be just fine if we could corrdinate with freight rail carriers) and i can anme two taht were inarguably great boons to America and you categorically say that large transportation projects are always failures? > > One of us does not understand the meaning of the word always. I’m not sure I’d even count Amtrak as a public transportation system. It’s a government-operated carrier running mostly on privately-owned infrastructure. Contrast that with the airlines, which are privately owned and use public infrastructure. In one of the few places where the government owns the tracks too, the Acela service in the northeast corridor, it operates at a profit. Speaking of air travel, you may want to include that (airports and all phases of air traffic control) as a successful public transportation project. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/852 "2011-03-02T20:37:12Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I say tax them a little more to give the teachers a raise- WI needs better education IMHO. Wisconsin, already has one of the top ten education systems in the country. On the other hand, if your eally are into merit pay, shouldn’t Wisconsin teachers get a top ten salary (COLA adjsuted of course). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/853 "2011-03-02T20:39:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > selling out the integrity of the CATO institute. Talk about your cheap commodities… ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/854 "2011-03-02T20:44:46Z")
> [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](#): > > Damuri Ajashi: Don’t forget the canal system of the early 1800’s. There are not many canals left, but it made a helluva difference then. I’m sure there are a lot more but my point is that he made a categorical statement that “transportation projects are always a waste” when he really meant “there are a couple of transportation projects that I think are a waste” and hsi examples don’t even cover the majority of transportation dolalrs spent in this country. It like saying Italians are always in the mafia, just look at John Gotti, he’s italian. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/855 "2011-03-02T20:52:29Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’m not sure I’d even count Amtrak as a public transportation system. It’s a government-operated carrier running mostly on privately-owned infrastructure. Contrast that with the airlines, which are privately owned and use public infrastructure. In one of the few places where the government owns the tracks too, the Acela service in the northeast corridor, it operates at a profit. > > Speaking of air travel, you may want to include that (airports and all phases of air traffic control) as a successful public transportation project. Especially after the great communicator drove home the point that collective bargaining goes against the public interest. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/856 "2011-03-02T21:27:14Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Especially after the great communicator drove home the point that collective bargaining goes against the public interest. You realize that every time you say that without any rationale involved, all the rest of us read is “meep meep meep meep meep” right? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/857 "2011-03-02T21:30:15Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > You realize that every time you say that without any rationale involved, all the rest of us read is “meep meep meep meep meep” right? Funny, I read it as “welovethemasterwewillservehimalwaysallhailthereaganallhailwelovethemasterwewillservehimalwaysallhailthereaganallhail…” Which ain’t bad return on investment for a cult that worships a man whose brain was already rotting in his skull the day he was first inaugurated. ---
**Author:** ![Page\_Fault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ad7895/32.png) [@Page\_Fault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Page_Fault)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/858 "2011-03-02T21:32:51Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Funny, I read it as “welovethemasterwewillservehimalwaysallhailthereaganallhailwelovethemasterwewillservehimalwaysallhailthereaganallhail…” > > Which ain’t bad return on investment for a cult that worships a man whose brain was already rotting in his skull the day he was first inaugurated. The real irony there is in this quote: [QUOTE=Ronald Reagan] “These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland … They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.” [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/859 "2011-03-02T21:50:28Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Especially after the great communicator drove home the point that collective bargaining goes against the public interest. Seriously, is that all you can type? Is there something wrong with your keyboard? Is that what the problem is, a defective keyboard, and you actually have profound thoughts that a relevant to the subject at hand–it’s just that your keyboard will only type things along the lines of “Blah blah blah collective bargaining blah blah blah public interest blah blah blah”? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/860 "2011-03-02T21:59:37Z")
Is that what you see? All I see is “Derp! Derp derp derp. Derp!” Reddit cooties got my monitor! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/861 "2011-03-02T22:40:29Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Especially after the great communicator drove home the point that collective bargaining goes against the public interest. Are you aware that air traffic controllers in the U.S. are currently represented by the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, formed in 1987, while Reagan was still in office? ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/862 "2011-03-02T22:43:41Z")
> [@Page\_Fault](#): > > The real irony there is in this quote: Just emailed that quote (after finding the [source](http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/ronaldreaganlibertypark.htm) to Rachel Maddow’s show. I noticed it on the protest [sign](http://www.wearewisconsin.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/IMG00073-20110302-1532.jpg) which is on her [site](http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/) also. Hopefully her staff is pulling the relevant clips. Granted, Reagan showed his true colors once the air traffic controllers went on strike. Firing them was certainly within his rights. Blackballing them from federal employment was bullshit. And the poor bastards had taken his words at face value, and had supported him over Carter. Something the public safety employees appear to remember in Wisconsin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=44)