# Govenor Scott Walker (R) WI **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743 "2011-02-17T20:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/883 "2011-03-03T13:08:54Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Why does everyone here have such a difficult time distinguishing public employees from private industry? Because people are people and organizations are organizations. They will all act in their self-interest. Creating artificial distinctions because you want to demonize one group over another is bogus. Public employees need unions precisely because government and voters have this tendency to forget deals they made in the past. “Yeah, I know we agreed to provide you this pension, but we decided to game the funding and now we can’t afford to keep our promise. Yeah, I know we pay you less than private industry for the same skills and eduction and that you took that cut in exchange for security and benefits, but you need to pay the price for our poor governance because we can’t go to the taxpayers with the bill.” It’s kind of hard to quit your government job and go work for another government. ---
**Author:** ![Reginald\_Hobbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@Reginald\_Hobbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reginald_Hobbes)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/884 "2011-03-03T13:56:28Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Public employees need unions precisely because government and voters have this tendency to forget deals they made in the past. "Yeah, I know we agreed to provide you this pension, but we decided to game the funding and now we can’t afford to keep our promise. By law, pension benefits for current employees and retirees cannot be reduced. If the pension is underfunded, the state, and ultimately the taxpayers, will have to make up the difference. > [@](#): > > It’s kind of hard to quit your government job and go work for another government. What about the Federal Govt and those 49 other states? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/885 "2011-03-03T14:55:54Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Why does everyone here have such a difficult time distinguishing public employees from private industry? So what’s the difference if I pay a union that donates to influence politicians, or I am a capitalist who pays the politicians directly? Either way, I’m using money to influence the people who define the rules of my existence. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/886 "2011-03-03T14:57:29Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > I’m finally convinced now - that most of the posters on this board are complete idiots. :rolleyes: You’ve already proven you have the knowledge and political savvy of a learning-disabled hamster, so keep sayin’ whatever you have to say to keep yourself hard. > [@MilTan](#): > > Really? Because I’m in Computer Science education, and I think there’s real merit to **Zeriel’s** position. I don’t fully agree with it, but neither would I blithely dismiss it. To continue the hijack–I’m thinking in particular of System Administration/Network Administration. The education for it has been woefully inadequate at the college level for ages, and everyone in the field seems to learn by doing or by specific trades coursework (A+, CC\*, MC\*, etc) anyway. Seems like you might as well formalize that. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/887 "2011-03-03T15:02:24Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Why does everyone here have such a difficult time distinguishing public employees from private industry? So you’re trying to imply here that it’s okay for private corporations to donate money to political campaigns and then use that as leverage to negotiate for more desirable laws and regulations because…well, because it’s private industry! But public sector unions who do that, god, no, that’s totally wrong. You’re not even an interesting kind of stupid. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/888 "2011-03-03T15:05:57Z")
Why don’t we just get to the heart of the matter which is that you think those rich bastard’s pile of cookies is too big. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/889 "2011-03-03T15:21:34Z")
> [@Reginald\_Hobbes](#): > > By law, pension benefits for current employees and retirees cannot be reduced. > If the pension is underfunded, the state, and ultimately the taxpayers, will have to make up the difference. > > What about the Federal Govt and those 49 other states? Not if the government chooses to nail the public workers for “their share”. It’s a shell game. If the government isn’t going to increase taxes to cover the shortfall, they’ll hit up the employees. See also, furloughs, IOUs instead of paychecks (i.e. a forced loan from the public worker), and massive hits to the public employee because again, the government can’t or won’t go back to the taxpayer. Have you tried applying for those jobs lately? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/890 "2011-03-03T15:25:26Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Why don’t we just get to the heart of the matter which is that you think those rich bastard’s pile of cookies is too big. I think what’s good for the goose is good for the gander–if person/group X isn’t allowed to make political contributions for their own benefit, then neither is person/group Y. Even if X is AFSCME and Y is Koch Industries. Do you agree or are you a hypocrite? Alternate response: Why don’t we just get to the heart of the matter which is that you think those poor struggling working folks shouldn’t be allowed to even consider defying your rich white whims. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/891 "2011-03-03T15:51:31Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > I’m finally convinced now - that most of the posters on this board are complete idiots. :rolleyes: Slight correction - most of them are extreme liberals. Almost but not quite the same thing. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/892 "2011-03-03T16:01:05Z")
The difference, which you obviously cannot comprehend, is that those rich bastards use their own money to influence politicians while public employee unions use money right from the taxpayer. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/893 "2011-03-03T16:12:02Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > The difference, which you obviously cannot comprehend, is that those rich bastards use their own money to influence politicians while public employee unions use money right from the taxpayer. What a racket! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/894 "2011-03-03T16:18:00Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > The difference, which you obviously cannot comprehend, is that those rich bastards use their own money to influence politicians while public employee unions use money right from the taxpayer. You ARE aware that public employees are also taxpayers, right? And why is it that money paid as wages to private employees instantly becomes “their” money to the point that taxation is seen as theft, but money paid as wages to public employees remains taxpayers’ money even after the paycheck is deposited? ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/895 "2011-03-03T16:20:09Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > The difference, which you obviously cannot comprehend, is that those rich bastards use their own money to influence politicians while public employee unions use money right from the taxpayer. The rich don’t get money from taxpayers? And does it really matter where your bribe money comes from? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/896 "2011-03-03T16:21:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Slight correction - most of them are extreme liberals. Is there any kind of liberal that is not extreme? Just askin’. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/897 "2011-03-03T16:24:00Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > The difference, which you obviously cannot comprehend, is that those rich bastards use their own money to influence politicians while public employee unions use money right from the taxpayer. I am just dying to hear the convoluted logic that explains how union dues are straight from the taxpayer. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/898 "2011-03-03T16:27:32Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > The difference, which you obviously cannot comprehend, is that those rich bastards use their own money to influence politicians while public employee unions use money right from the taxpayer. How dare you tell a hard-working taxpayer what he or she can do with the money from their paycheck? Alternate answer: Okay, so only companies who are on government contracts are barred from contributing to politicians. Quick quiz: name me a Fortune 500 company that’s NOT taking at least one government contract. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/899 "2011-03-03T16:31:13Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Why don’t we just get to the heart of the matter which is that you think those rich bastard’s pile of cookies is too big. Absolutely true. The top 1 percent own 38 percent of the wealth. The top 5 own over half the wealth. Which means 95 percent of the people own less than half. There is a statistical tool for measuring income distribution, the Gini coefficient. It ranges from 0 to 1. We are at .82 ,which is unheard of . We are far above any other industrial nation in concentration of wealth. In case you have not figured it out yet, the union busting will add even more inequality. It is an attack on working people. Somehow people on this board identify with the rich and hate workers. Ohio just passed a Wisconsin type bill stripping collective bargaining from public workers including police and firemen. It was passed 17 to 16. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/900 "2011-03-03T16:35:20Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > The difference, which you obviously cannot comprehend, is that those rich bastards use their own money to influence politicians… …who then make sweetheart deals to sell power companies to the rich bastards who can then go make more of their own money. Which is totally in the public interest. Totally. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/901 "2011-03-03T16:38:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Is there any kind of liberal that is not extreme? Just askin’. Sure. The nitwits are just louder. For instance - > [@](#): > > I am just dying to hear the convoluted logic that explains how union dues are straight from the taxpayer. It’s relatively easy to explain, but doing so would do no good - the nitwits will simply ignore or misrepresent the explanation. This makes them idiots. But I think we already knew that. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/902 "2011-03-03T16:41:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s relatively easy to explain… So that puts it well beyond your capabilities? I knew there was a reason you didn’t just post it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=46)