# Govenor Scott Walker (R) WI **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743 "2011-02-17T20:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 71
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1403 "2011-03-15T22:32:13Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No qualifiers, no limits. The only interpretation of your words is that it always happens and is inevitable. …That you are a complete idiot. Thanks for making that perfectly clear. No _interpretation_ required. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1404 "2011-03-15T22:40:58Z")
So be precise. Under what conditions does a lowest-bid contract produce “shoddy work, defective product, inadequate staffing” and other negative features, and how might one mitigate those conditions short of awarding contracts without a bid process? (Feel free to discuss things that are done before accepting bids that you haven’t yet mentioned.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1405 "2011-03-15T22:51:10Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > …That you are a complete idiot. Thanks for making that perfectly clear. > > No _interpretation_ required. :rolleyes: You are clearly delusional. Even when shown plainly and clearly that you were in error, you continue to try and claim that you were not. “Lowest point” indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1406 "2011-03-16T15:58:39Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > [Wisconsin Dems have almost half of the required signatures for recall of 8 Republican state senators](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/nearly-half-of-signatures-collected-to-recall-wisconsin-gop-state-senators-dems-say/2011/03/03/ABhVvQV_blog.html). They have a 60-day window to get signatures equal to 25% of votes cast in each senator’s district on election day, and they have almost half of those signatures only 11 days into that window. 1.) My only concern is that the people who cared the most rushed up to sign the petitions ASAP. Hopefully this rate keeps up, though. 2.) Hilariously, the petitions on the Democratic Senators eligible for recall are [all being sponsored by a group from Utah](http://www.prwatch.org/news/2011/02/10198/utah-group-seeks-recall-wisconsin-democratic-senators). (When initially filed, they hadn’t yet even been able to find a single person from each district to act as their front, as required.) > [@Enderw24](#): > > What has been the response from President Obama, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Tim Kaine or anyone else at the national level? I haven’t seen much, personally. other than [the quote from Pres. Obama’s campaign](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiIMJWRpX1A): “If American workers are being denied their right to organize and collectively bargain, when I’m in the White House, I’ll put on a comfortable pair of shoes myself. I’ll walk on that picket line with you as President of the United States because Americans deserve to know that somebody is standing in their corner.” No word yet on whether he’ll follow through. [There was initially some support](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/17/AR2011021705494.html) but I’m not sure how substantive it’s been or continues to be. The [Labor Secretary did express support](http://nation.foxnews.com/hilda-solis/2011/03/04/obama-labor-secretary-incites-wisconsin-unions#) a couple of weeks ago. > [@Nadir](#): > > It’s pretty common knowledge (well, at least for people who are familiar with the subject :rolleyes:) that lowest bidder government contracting has been a cost and efficiency fallacy for a long, long time. You’re off base on a hilarious number of levels here. 1.) We’re talking about bids to take something over, not contract for a project. That means that the state would be looking for the highest bidder, not the lowest. 2.) I have never expressed an opinion on lowest-bidder projects. 3.) Lowest-bidder is how the \*private sector \*often works. An organization sends out an RFP, potential vendors respond with bids, and when there is a substantive difference between fees (assuming all of the organization’s stated needs will be met) the organization selects the lowest bidder. > [@Nadir](#): > > Yes SFG, please explain exactly how bidding for power plant operations in Wisconsin is a good or bad thing, as the case may be. We are all ears. If you hand over the utilities to a private company with no bidding or oversight, that means that there’s a good chance it’s going to be handed to a political crony of the person making the appointment. [Did you notice that Koch Industries is already hiring for power plant managers in Wisconsin?](http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/part-budget-fix-gov-walker-would-rath) (And didn’t I already link that here?) Gee, what a coincidence! It’s almost like they know they’re about to get paid back for the candidate they bought. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > “Lowest point” indeed. I have to wonder about posters like \*\*Nadir \*\*and **may\_be\_ignorant**. I find it hard to believe they’re anything but trolls who proudly wear the label on their foreheads, daring us to do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1407 "2011-03-17T02:11:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I personally feel the government does better by awarding contracts on a best value basis, rather than strictly low bid, but that has nothing to do with the claims here. I agree. Why strip judgement out of the process by being bound to the lowest absolute bid? Though in WI, voters kind of stripped judgement out of the process by electing Walker and his buddies. What’s the latest recall update? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1408 "2011-03-17T02:39:23Z")
While it has been a fair number of years since I was involved in the government procurement racket, it is my recollection that in order to be the successful candidate to sell the government stuff the candidate must be the LOWEST RESPONSIVE AND RESPONSIBLE BIDDER. Just being the low bidder is not enough. The bidder must be offering to sell the government precisely what the government is buying on the terms the government proposed. The bidder must either have an established track record of delivering what they promise or be prepared to offer sureties or bond for their performance. All that other balderdash about the inadequacy of good and services procured on a low bid basis makes for nice rhetoric but doesn’t have much basis in fact. There is an exception to all this. That is when the fix is in. That some corporate powers are already looking for plant managers suggests that just that may have happened in the Badger State. All of this may be a bit off topic. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1409 "2011-03-17T03:12:27Z")
> [@Spavined\_Gelding](#): > > While it has been a fair number of years since I was involved in the government procurement racket, it is my recollection that in order to be the successful candidate to sell the government stuff the candidate must be the LOWEST RESPONSIVE AND RESPONSIBLE BIDDER. Just being the low bidder is not enough. The bidder must be offering to sell the government precisely what the government is buying on the terms the government proposed. The bidder must either have an established track record of delivering what they promise or be prepared to offer sureties or bond for their performance. All that other balderdash about the inadequacy of good and services procured on a low bid basis makes for nice rhetoric but doesn’t have much basis in fact. > > There is an exception to all this. That is when the fix is in. That some corporate powers are already looking for plant managers suggests that just that may have happened in the Badger State. > > All of this may be a bit off topic. Completely on topic, **Spavined G**. (How you doing? Long time no see.) The vendor qualification process is what I was wanting to see if my old project manager friend **Nadir** was even aware of. And yes, the exception is when the vendor’s known before hand (although in this case, it’s the buyer rather than the seller). Usually there’s a bit of kabuki, but that’s only when the crooked dealer has some shame or some expectation of accountability… ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1410 "2011-03-19T13:52:58Z")
Go back, read the actual bill and get back to me, without the alarmist, rhetorical union butt-sucking media hype. Selling, buying, privatizing, bidding - WTF are we actually trying to do here? Do you have a single clue at all, or do you just like waxing nostalgic about your project management accumen? SFG, I already understand where you’re coming from, so that is a complete waste of ignorance fighting time - please disregard. Sheesh. Fucking morons. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1411 "2011-03-19T14:49:39Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Did you notice that Koch Industries is already hiring for power plant managers in Wisconsin? Hiring? Looks like another example of how your shoolgirlish logic interprets terminology to fit the preconceived conclusion. My company presently has many job reqs for all sorts of things that don’t actually exist until contracts are in place. It’s called planning. It’s what successful people and companies do - something you’re ilk is obviously unfamiliar with. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1412 "2011-03-19T14:54:49Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > My company presently has many job reqs for all sorts of things that don’t actually exist until contracts are in place. Yeah, i saw their signs the other day: “Now Hiring Asst. Mgr., McRib Exp. a Plus!” ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1413 "2011-03-19T15:14:23Z")
Dear Old PM Friend \*\*Nadir \*\*- There’s one “c” in “acumen”. I’d reply at greater length, but there’s no “there” there to rebut. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1414 "2011-03-19T15:21:10Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Dear Old PM Friend \*\*Nadir \*\*- There’s one “c” in “acumen”. …but I’m at work right now and was kinda hurriedly typing and ignoring the inline spell checker while simultaneously attending to other more pressing activities. Just a coincidence we get the occasional flash of hyperactivity between long periods of inactivity. :o ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1415 "2011-03-19T22:54:30Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Bullshit. … _You_ are the one sneering at the importance of proper specifications, planning and oversight. For the comprehension impaired I am sneering at the _lack_ of it. Which is not at all uncommon in government contracting at all levels. Believing otherwise is naive, and otherwise known as _bullshit_. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1416 "2011-03-19T22:57:02Z")
Not really, no. The naive are usually the victims of bullshit, inflicted upon them by the cynical. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1417 "2011-03-19T23:32:46Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > For the comprehension impaired I am sneering at the _lack_ of it. Well, consider me impaired I guess, because my first, second and (now) third reading of your complaint leaves me thinking you were suggesting that the cure for poor quality, defects, inadequate staffing, etc. was to avoid lowest-bid contracts, specifically by going to no-bid awards. Now, that was a non sequitur to the point regarding the privatization of power stations, but that’s clearly what you said. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1418 "2011-03-20T00:47:43Z")
Of course, Nadir fails to comprehend that a fairly significant number of us at the Dope have worked for government contractors, and know that he’s spouting bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1419 "2011-03-20T00:50:25Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Nadir fails to comprehend It’s fairly safe to start any sentence with that, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1420 "2011-03-20T05:53:25Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > …but I’m at work right now and was kinda hurriedly typing and ignoring the inline spell checker while simultaneously attending to other more pressing activities. > > Just a coincidence we get the occasional flash of hyperactivity between long periods of inactivity. :o Translation: the line at the drive thru was really backed up and the burgers were burning. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1421 "2011-03-20T06:32:29Z")
No fries for _yo_u! No! ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1422 "2011-03-20T13:56:20Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Of course, Nadir fails to comprehend that a fairly significant number of us at the Dope have worked for government contractors, and know that he’s spouting bullshit. The things you seem to think you know about government contracting would not impress me in the least. \ Been there, done that, been on both customer and contractor sides, still doing it going on 30 years. You and your “dopers” crowd appear to be with rare exception as I’ve noted in similar vein before, a bunch of more or less cluess whiners with too much time on your hands. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=70) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=72)