# Govenor Scott Walker (R) WI **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743 "2011-02-17T20:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 73
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1443 "2011-03-21T18:02:24Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > My company does alot of extremely high tech stuff, but I wouldn’t presume to comprehend half of it. Aerospace is the biggie, and I presently fly a spacecraft. Hardy har har! YOU’RE an astronaut? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1444 "2011-03-21T18:53:53Z")
Ain’t what they used to be, Bob. I remember when they were square-jawed American Heroes. Now we got a crazy lady driving cross-country in a diaper. And this yutz. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1445 "2011-03-21T18:54:36Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > We’re in different worlds, then. I should also mention our O&M contract portion of the $600M slice out of the taxpayer pie is a small fraction of that, maybe 5%, just a WAG. And we are as a shop, probably one of the, if not _the_ smallest under-the-radar nobody-ever-heard-of operations in the entire company. From that perspective, I suspect our worlds are more similar than different. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1446 "2011-03-21T19:28:10Z")
Speaking as a VP for a pretty decent sized Government Contractor (over $800m rev), I can say taht **Nadir** is often correct - the low-priced bid often, even most of the time, is of inferior quality and a disservice to the taxpayer than many of the best value, higher-priced bids. The problem always is that the Government usually doesn’t define the requirement to a great enough extent to be able to evaluate the bids on an even playing field, usually resulting in low-ball guy winning (mainly because KO’s are lazy and risk-averse). They often win by bidding insufficient labor quality (kids out of school instead of qualified engineers), or unrealistic labor prices ($25/hr for an engineer w/3 yrs experience and a clearance… good luck staffing those guys). And **Xenophon** , there really isn’t any ‘no-bid’ contracts, at least not as many as those who hated the Cheney-Haliburton cabal would have you believe. Even sole source awards need to have a [JOFOC](https://www.acquisition.gov/far/current/html/Subpart%206_3.html#wp1086841) built, and usually it’s because there’s really only one quality source (how many companies build carriers? How many companies could bid on the DHS St E’s relo when the Government required a past performance of $1 billion or greater to be cited?) As for the low quality catching up to them, it’s supposed to via the CPARs - kind of a cnet or Consumer Reports for contractor past performance. But again, see statement about lazy KOs - frequently it’s not checked and/or ignored. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1447 "2011-03-21T19:44:56Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > And **Xenophon** , there really isn’t any ‘no-bid’ contracts, at least not as many as those who hated the Cheney-Haliburton cabal would have you believe. You understand I never said there were, right? Someone else defended the proposed no-bid _sales_ of power utilities in Wisconsin by citing the “fallacy” of low-bid government contracts. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1448 "2011-03-21T19:45:58Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > I should also mention our O&M contract portion of the $600M slice out of the taxpayer pie is a small fraction of that, maybe 5%, just a WAG. And we are as a shop, probably one of the, if not _the_ smallest under-the-radar nobody-ever-heard-of operations in the entire company. > > From that perspective, I suspect our worlds are more similar than different. What I meant was, I’m nowhere NEAR aerospace. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1449 "2011-03-21T19:48:16Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Speaking as a VP for a pretty decent sized Government Contractor (over $800m rev), I can say taht **Nadir** is often correct - the low-priced bid often, even most of the time, is of inferior quality and a disservice to the taxpayer than many of the best value, higher-priced bids. The problem always is that the Government usually doesn’t define the requirement to a great enough extent to be able to evaluate the bids on an even playing field, usually resulting in low-ball guy winning (mainly because KO’s are lazy and risk-averse). They often win by bidding insufficient labor quality (kids out of school instead of qualified engineers), or unrealistic labor prices ($25/hr for an engineer w/3 yrs experience and a clearance… good luck staffing those guys). > > And **Xenophon** , there really isn’t any ‘no-bid’ contracts, at least not as many as those who hated the Cheney-Haliburton cabal would have you believe. Even sole source awards need to have a [JOFOC](https://www.acquisition.gov/far/current/html/Subpart%206_3.html#wp1086841) built, and usually it’s because there’s really only one quality source (how many companies build carriers? How many companies could bid on the DHS St E’s relo when the Government required a past performance of $1 billion or greater to be cited?) > > As for the low quality catching up to them, it’s supposed to via the CPARs - kind of a cnet or Consumer Reports for contractor past performance. But again, see statement about lazy KOs - frequently it’s not checked and/or ignored. The part of it that really burns me is that every story I hear about people half-assing low-bid contracts comes from you 9+ figure companies. Down here in the 3-5m range, if we don’t deliver we die. I suspect patronage! ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1450 "2011-03-21T19:58:50Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > You understand I never said there were, right? Someone else defended the proposed no-bid _sales_ of power utilities in Wisconsin by citing the “fallacy” of low-bid government contracts. Roger, I was reacting to what you said [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13591349&postcount=1417), where you say > [@](#): > > specifically by going to no-bid awards There’s virtually never a ‘no-bid’ award at the federal level - someone always has to propose something, and depending on the agency and size of the deal, there’s still plenty of checks and balances (KO, competition advocate, program office, the IG, sometimes even the ALT guys, for you DOD-types). ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1451 "2011-03-21T20:05:10Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > The part of it that really burns me is that every story I hear about people half-assing low-bid contracts comes from you 9+ figure companies. Down here in the 3-5m range, if we don’t deliver we die. > > I suspect patronage! Well, if by patronage, you mean that some guys are too big to fail so to speak, you’re probably right. For example, take the cocksuckers at Lockheed Martin: they did about as bad a job as they could on the last DHS IT infrastructure contract, called IT NOVA. They lowballed in the ways I detailed in my last post, plus others. And yet they aren’t debarred, they aren’t really penalized at all. They will cite other, successful past performance for other deals, and many will not bother to check their legacy of train wrecks, because hey, it’s Lockheed Martin!. I agree with you that little guys have no such leeway - but then again, that’s usually because they don’t have a big brand, and it’s a big risk for a KO to award them anything because, well, nobody has ever heard of the Mom-n-Pop System Integration Company™. About the only way they can demand some premium to the low-ball is when they have some uber SME, usually an ex-Govie, who is the only guy who knows how the system was built, where the bodies are buried, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1452 "2011-03-21T20:12:23Z")
The problem with the really big stuff and the ultra high-tech stuff is like Mr. Smashy says: Sole source. So everybody gets lazy (government and contractor alike), things get bloated, behind schedule, yada, yada. It’s almost inevitable and reversing the trend is very difficult. We have recently seen initiatives on the acquisition side to get away from it with more performance-based and scope limiting features, but it’s always going to be an issue. Back on topic… I wonder how the people in Madison would feel after their power plant was sold to the highest bidder who started doing things they did not approve of? Or if the O&M was outsourced to the lowest bidder who started cutting all sorts of corners to increase their profit margin? Or even failed in those efforts and went bankrupt? Do you not believe that power generation is something requiring a little more government oversight and control than your average mom 'n pop diner-type business? Might not the government’s exercise in complete discretion over these things better serve the public interest? Can’t say for sure one way or the other, but I’d choose to err on the government’s side in this case. Guess we’re going to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1453 "2011-03-21T20:59:10Z")
You kmight have to come up with a better example, no matter who owns a nuclear power plant it is extrememly regulated by the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1454 "2011-03-21T21:15:10Z")
Did it occur to you that of the 30-some odd power plants in WI, only two are nuke plants? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1455 "2011-03-21T21:22:34Z")
Low-bid contracts or high-bid takeovers **do not equal** low-government-oversight. Although it’s absolutely correct to say that poor government oversight is a frequent enabler of misfeasance and abuse, it doesn’t necessarily follow a low-bid process and would certainly not be precluded by arbitrary government award of a contract either. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1456 "2011-03-21T21:26:53Z")
It’s all about risk management. If you want argue the merits of one potential extreme or the other it won’t be with me. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1457 "2011-03-21T21:38:26Z")
Actually, it’s all about government accountability. The low-bid/no-bid sidetrack wasn’t introduced by “my” side of this argument. Foolish me, I helped navigate this detour though. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1458 "2011-03-21T21:43:06Z")
OK, I’ll play some more. How can Govenor Scott Walker ® WI be more accountable for something he has less control over? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1459 "2011-03-21T22:04:49Z")
The chief executive of a state nor the executive branch of that state’s government equals “the government”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1460 "2011-03-22T05:05:24Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > OK, I’ll play some more. How can Govenor Scott Walker (R) WI be more accountable for something he has less control over? Surrendering a responsibility he was expected to fulfull? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1461 "2011-04-15T03:08:48Z")
[url=]Story here. > [@](#): > > “Sometimes,” the Republican governor told the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, “bipartisanship is not so good.” > [@](#): > > Just how much did weakening government workers’ collective bargaining rights save the state of Wisconsin? demanded Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio. > > “That particular part doesn’t save any,” Walker replied. What was his inauguration day? Can a petition for recall be submitted that day in June, or does it have to wait a full year? ---
**Author:** ![Reginald\_Hobbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@Reginald\_Hobbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reginald_Hobbes)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/1462 "2011-04-15T13:12:26Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > What was his inauguration day? Can a petition for recall be submitted that day in June, or does it have to wait a full year? Inauguration day was January 3, and the recall petitioners must wait until next year. To add a little context to your quotes: From [here](http://oversight.house.gov/images/stories/Testimony/Gov_Walker_Testimony_4-14-2011.pdf) > [@](#): > > But sometimes, bi-partisanship is not so good. During several of the past budgets, members of both political parties raided segregated funds, used questionable accounting principles and deferred tough decisions. This, along with the use of billions of dollars worth of one-time federal stimulus money for the budget two years ago, left Wisconsin with the current $3.6 billion deficit. And [here](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/14/967026/-Scott-Walker-says-stripping-collective-bargaining-rights-doesnt-saveanymoney?showAll=yes) > [@](#): > > Kucinich (0:43): Let me ask you about some of the specific provisions in your proposal to strip collective bargaining rights. **First, your proposal would require unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their own members. Can you please explain to me and members of this committee how much money this provision saves for your state budget?** > > ``` > Walker (1:07):That and a number of other provisions we put in because if you are going to ask, if you are going to put in place a change like that, we wanted to make sure that we protected the worker's of our state so they had a right to know what kind of value they got out of it. It's the same reason we gave worker's the right to choose, which is a fundamental America right, the right to choose whether or not they want to be a part of a union, and whether they went up to a thousand-- > > Kucinich (1:26): Would you answer the question? How much money does it save Governor? Just answer the question. > > Walker: **It doesn't save any**. > > ``` [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=72)