# Govenor Scott Walker (R) WI **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743 "2011-02-17T20:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/141 "2011-02-20T03:55:05Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > The people that work for the employer I worked for will get the exact same deal I did. > > It wouldn’t hurt them to pay a bit towards those benefits any more than it would have hurt me to. But that isn’t what they are being asked to do is it? They are not being offered the exact same deal as you. They are being told that they will not even receive close to the exact same deal as you had. Are you willing to accept, retroactively the deal they get? If not, why not? Are you willing now to pay retroactively more for the benefits you receive? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/142 "2011-02-20T04:09:45Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Hmmm, did I miss a national referendum yes or no vote on cutting $100B out of discretionary spending this fiscal that was on the ballot in every State, votes were cast by a majority of adults, and there was a clear majority (let’s just say 60%+). > > No, that didn’t happen. Would appreciate it if all and sundry fuckwits would quit trying to claim a “mandate.” > > Wisconsin is showing that the Governor has a mandate for jack shit. What I was aware before from him was his promises to follow anti-science and stop the creation of clean jobs. [http://climateprogress.org/2010/10/14/in-tight-governor-races-tea-party-climate-deniers-threaten-clean-energy-jobs/](http://climateprogress.org/2010/10/14/in-tight-governor-races-tea-party-climate-deniers-threaten-clean-energy-jobs/) > [@](#): > > Milwaukee county executive Scott Walker, the Republican candidate for governor, is a global warming conspiracy theorist: > > > [@](#): > > > > Governor Doyle has put his trust in international politicians, bureaucrats, celebrities and discredited scientists to replace the real manufacturing jobs Wisconsin is losing every day. [Scott Walker, 12/10/09] > > In 2009, Democratic governor Jim Doyle introduced comprehensive global warming legislation that included a strong renewable energy standard of 25 percent by 2025. Walker viciously the bill as “global warming legislation that would mandate billions of dollars in new spending to produce the exact same energy we use today,” claiming “Wisconsin families will pay a steep price for these costly new regulations in higher utility bills and the projected 43,000 jobs that will be lost if this bill passes.” > > Citing Tom Barrett’s support for the Kyoto Protocol and the US Conference of Mayors environmental agreement, Walker claimed Barrett has a record of promoting “radical environmental policies that kill jobs.” > > Walker has received $15,000 from Koch Industries and signed the Koch-backed Americans for Prosperity No Climate Tax pledge. It must be a coincidence that Koch is also one of the ones financing the busing of tea party supporters to the areas where the supporters of the union are gathering. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/143 "2011-02-20T04:21:44Z")
I got a nickel that says somewhere within thier dark empire, there’s a lawyer working out how they can take those expenses off their taxes. Oh, shit! **Rand** ’s not here, is he? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/144 "2011-02-20T04:44:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Agreed–that’s what you are saying now. But when the Republicans did it you bemoaned obstruction itself. I bemoaned their expressed intention to obstruct EVERYTHING and NEVER work, but that’s ok, they’ll pay in 2012. That’s how it works. The voters have the last say.l ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/145 "2011-02-20T05:47:14Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > But that isn’t what they are being asked to do is it? They are not being offered the exact same deal as you. They are being told that they will not even close to the exact same deal as you had. Are you willing to accept, retroactively the deal they get? If not, why not? I said I was a government employee. I never said what branch of government. Nothing Walker is doing will affect anyone who works for the employer i did. But those that do would not suffer to pay a bit more for their benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/146 "2011-02-20T13:05:10Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > But those that do would not suffer to pay a bit more for their benefits. **And they would lose their collective bargaining agreements. That’s why the unions are unhappy and that’s why the democrats left the state.** Why is it that you are ignoring the actual part of the bill that everyone objects to? I’d say it’s because you just want the democrats to be cowards and the unions to be whiners because that fits your [del]preconcieved notions about how things really are[/del] expertise and wisdom, but I’d still like to hear your answer. ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/147 "2011-02-20T16:46:23Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > The people that work for the employer I worked for will get the exact same deal I did. > > It wouldn’t hurt them to pay a bit towards those benefits any more than it would have hurt me to. > [@sinjin](#): > > But that isn’t what they are being asked to do is it? They are not being offered the exact same deal as you. They are being told that they will not even close to the exact same deal as you had. Are you willing to accept, retroactively the deal they get? If not, why not? Are you willing now to pay retroactively more for the benefits you receive? If not, why not? But see, **pkbites** was law enforcement. They aren’t up for gutting. I used to work for our state’s retirement system. Oh, the benefits that the law enforcement officers and fire fighters (LEOFF) get. As a rule, then get better benefits while working (better health insurance, more sick days and paid leave, more employer-paid retirement) and better retirements than other government employees. They are not part of your city, county and state government retirement plans. Usually, teachers also have separate retirement plans so that they can be individually rewarded/boned by their school districts to the tax-payers content. The case can be made that LEOFF gets better deals because the job is so hazardous. I agree with earlier retirement for LEOFF. But I’m not sure they should be treated so much differently than other gov employees, such as getting to keep collective bargaining while everybody else has it taken away. If collective bargaining is too costly or not needed for other government employees, then I expect the LEOFF should not need it either. Surely you agree, **pkbites**? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/148 "2011-02-20T16:55:30Z")
Perhaps if we called it “private free market” rather than “collective” bargaining? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/149 "2011-02-20T17:05:44Z")
My wife worked for the IRS for over 2 decades. The last few years, the copays went up and the coverage got worse. Lots of employees were broomed too. It was not the sinecure that outsiders claim.They did not make a lot of money either. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/150 "2011-02-20T17:24:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They ARE doing their jobs. Couragously (unlike the Governor), and the Wisconsin cops have already said they aren’t going to compel jack shit. > > This stupid move is blowing up in Wanker’s face. Trying to bust unions was not part of the deal people signed up for. He has now declared war on the working class, and turned a lot of Republicans (lots of teachers are Republicans - probably most) against him. He probably won’t live out the night. They’ll string him up over Lambeau Field. He’s probably looking to steal some state money and skip to Canada as we speak. Only about 15 to 20% of teachers against him. Firefighters and policemen are overwhelmingly Republican and even THEY are turning against him. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/151 "2011-02-20T18:56:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Only about 15 to 20% of teachers against him. Firefighters and policemen are overwhelmingly Republican and even THEY are turning against him. The bit about most teachers being conservative comes from NEA polling. Not sure how the number you are referring comes from, but in any case I think firefighters and Police know instinctively that if the Republicans succeed in removing rights for other workers that it is likely that they would be next. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/152 "2011-02-20T20:11:08Z")
Not so long as they behave themselves. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/153 "2011-02-20T21:24:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Not so long as they behave themselves. It’s bidness. They will come for them when thyt feel secure that the first deed has been accomplished. Walker cut some taxes and diverted funds to create an illusion of a fiscal crisis. A guy who will do that will not let the rest go. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/154 "2011-02-20T21:40:19Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I said I was a government employee. I never said what branch of government. > > Nothing Walker is doing will affect anyone who works for the employer i did. > > But those that do would not suffer to pay a bit more for their benefits. But not you. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/155 "2011-02-20T21:57:32Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > But not you. Got it. No, you don’t got it. I said it would not have killed me to pay more for my benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/156 "2011-02-20T22:07:29Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > No, you don’t got it. I said it would not have killed me to pay more for my benefits. Right, but that’s not the reason the dems left. Repeating it doesn’t make it any more correct. You are avoiding addressing the reason that they left. You could say you’re running from it. Like a coward. [And here’s a brief history of the tactic.](http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-02-19/when-politicians-run-away-wisconsin-union-showdown/) Honest Abe Lincoln? More like Scaredy Cat Lincoln! Am I right? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/157 "2011-02-20T22:20:26Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Right, but that’s not the reason the dems left. Repeating it doesn’t make it any more correct. You are avoiding addressing the reason that they left. The Democrats left because they don’t have the stones to represent their constituents at the state capitol where they are supposed to. They also don’t have the honor to accept that they had their heads handed to them last November. They also don’t have the brains to realize this tactic is not going to work, it will backfire, and Walker is going to be triumphant. If he’s not I’ll gladly come back here and eat crow. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/158 "2011-02-20T22:30:29Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > The Democrats left because they don’t have the stones to represent their constituents at the state capitol where they are supposed to. They also don’t have the honor to accept that they had their heads handed to them last November. They also don’t have the brains to realize this tactic is not going to work, it will backfire, and Walker is going to be triumphant. If he’s not I’ll gladly come back here and eat crow. So they should just accept the fact that Walker and the republicans are going to _needlessly take away the collective bargaining rights of most unions involved with the state government_ out of honor.:dubious: Uh huh. As long as it makes sense to you I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/159 "2011-02-20T23:03:25Z")
Not even with paid busing could the tea partiers get enough supporters of the governor to make a good enough show of numbers compared to the opponents. [http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/19/us-wisconsin-protests-teaparty-idUSTRE71I3J820110219](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/19/us-wisconsin-protests-teaparty-idUSTRE71I3J820110219) > [@](#): > > (Reuters) - Supporters of legislation to reduce public employee union bargaining power and benefits in Wisconsin were far outnumbered by opponents on Saturday, as the two sides shouted competing slogans under clear skies. > > Tens of thousands have demonstrated throughout the week against Republican Governor Scott Walker’s proposals, which supporters say are necessary to bring state spending under control and opponents contend are aimed at breaking the back of state worker unions. > > Both sides drew thousands on Saturday, but opponents appeared to have several times as many on hand as those attending a rally backed by Tea Party groups, the first such demonstration this week. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743/160 "2011-02-20T23:05:31Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > They’re using extralegal methods to try to prevent a bill that has the support of the majority of the legislature from being passed. Is it in the interests of their constituents to flout the legal process and majority rule? But it not like the Dems in the Wisconsin legislature are trying this every other week (nor did the GOP when they were minority). My outrage-o-meter allows each party (per state) one pass every decade or so on this sort of thing. My meter is similarly calibrated for filibusters in the U.S. House: it’s okay every once in a great while, but if a party were to start filibustering every other bill that came in front of them, things would be _way_ out of hand and something would have to be done. Oh… what’s that? Really?!? You say the GOP used the filibuster like a cheap, tea-bagging whore in the last Congress? That’s outrageous! What happened to the scoundrels? \*\*THEY GOT ELECTED INTO THE MAJORITY??? \*\*\*HOLY SHIT!!! \ ***this country is fucked up!** But look on the bright side–at least it stopped their filibusters! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govenor-scott-walker-r-wi/571743.md?page=9)