# Government agents posing as journalists-right or wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 19, 2016, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342 "2016-09-19T11:36:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/21 "2016-09-21T03:06:13Z")
Well then if it didn’t help us find him it probably wasn’t worth it then ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/22 "2016-09-21T03:37:31Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > Sure, there probably would have been some way to confirm it without using fake health screenings. But how far do you go to minimize risk? Maybe you could confirm it 99% if you changed plans and waited a month. Or maybe you could confirm it faster through some method, but you would only get an 80% chance. Maybe they thought he might be tipped off and will run soon, and they went with the faster plan instead of the slower one. Who knows? But that’s armchair quaterbacking. What we know is that they had a method, used it, confirmed it was him, and got him. I think that speaks to how effective that method was given that it worked I think you make a good case here, plus the OP points out these types of deceits have to be approved at the highest levels. So it’s not like any yahoo agent can go around faking OB/GYN exams just to get a minimal amount of intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/23 "2016-09-21T04:22:14Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I think you make a good case here, plus the OP points out these types of deceits have to be approved at the highest levels. So it’s not like any yahoo agent can go around faking OB/GYN exams just to get a minimal amount of intelligence. Please don’t misrepresent what I obviously meant, which was that there was no outside oversight or review, so we actually have no idea who(if anyone) is refused. “Approved at the highest levels” doesn’t meant squat if those at “the highest levels” don’t give a shit about anything but getting the mission done, no matter the long-term consequences to others. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/24 "2016-09-21T15:55:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Please don’t misrepresent what I obviously meant, which was that there was no outside oversight or review, so we actually have no idea who(if anyone) is refused. “Approved at the highest levels” doesn’t meant squat if those at “the highest levels” don’t give a shit about anything but getting the mission done, no matter the long-term consequences to others. Right, those at the highest levels of the FBI or CIA aren’t getting paid to care about some terrorist’s feelings or who’s butthurt over an attack thwarted. Their mission is to stop criminal and terrorists from hurting and killing innocent people. Their only other consideration is staying within the law. It is Congress who passed the law _ordering_ the FBI/CIA to take out terrorists. So unless that law specifically says that agents aren’t allowed to pose as doctors/aid workers/journalists, then I’m afraid you’ve a long hill to climb trying to demonstrate it _is_ illegal for the agents to pose as such. Congress would never have passed this law without fully considering the long term consequences to others. And it really is Congress’ problem, not the FBI/CIA’s. The mission is set and more lives are saved than are lost. It seems to me your argument is based on what could be going on. Unless you have more examples of agents pretending to be doctors then we really are being speculative, perhaps even suspecting some elaborate conspiracy. **YogSothoth** is pointing out that the benefit _in this one case_ outweighed the damage, and _in this one case_ I agree that the FBI/CIA did see the greater benefit. Consider the parents of daughters in Northern Nigeria, they see Boko Haram streaming over the hilltops attacking them. All of a sudden, a bunch of doctors/aid workers/journalists whip out Uzis and machine gun down all these terrorists. I’m just not seeing how these poor folk are going to somehow think The West deceived them and mean no goodwill. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/25 "2016-09-21T16:10:12Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Congress would never have passed this law without fully considering the long term consequences to others. Perhaps I’m overly cynical, but I don’t believe this for a minute. ---
**Author:** ![quimper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7c8e57/32.png) [@quimper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quimper)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/26 "2016-09-21T16:11:04Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > I feel similar about this and agents posing as health workers in foreign countries. It’s wrong and the agencies shouldn’t do it. Whatever legitimate purposes the data an agent could collect using these covers support aren’t as important as the work the actual health workers/journalists do. The chilling effects on the acceptance of legitimate health aid efforts and/or journalists investigating a story far outweigh the temporary and limited additional benefits of an agent’s mission. > > It’s not that the intelligence agencies missions aren’t important, just that a single fake health agency has repercussions far beyond that one mission. Similarly a fake journalist makes all journalists seem fake, and that diminishes us all. > > Enjoy, > Steven 100% agreed. The CIA vaccination program designed to catch Bin Ladin have caused irreparable harm in Pakistan, where the Taliban [regularly kills polio vaccination teams](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36090891) and the soldiers guarding them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/27 "2016-09-21T16:20:05Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Right, those at the highest levels of the FBI or CIA aren’t getting paid to care about some terrorist’s feelings or who’s butthurt over an attack thwarted. I didn’t say or even come close to implying this, either. maybe if you just quoted me directly you could get something right? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/28 "2016-09-21T17:10:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [On Thursday, a federal watchdog agency determined that an FBI agent posing as a reporter did not violate their undercover policies.](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/business/media/fbi-impersonation-of-journalist-did-not-violate-undercover-policies-federal-watchdog-says.html) Personally, I think such a ruling not only makes legitimate journalism harder, it makes it more dangerous. In a way, it justifies any group that claims that American journalists are spies. You’re wrong … investigative journalism into the internal affairs of terrorist organizations is already extremely dangerous … mainly because journalists have a habit of making public everything they learn … spies however, not so much. Seriously, why would Bruno the crime boss guard his tongue because the reporter might be an FBI agent? I would think the other way around, Bruno is going to guard his tongue because the FBI agent might be a reporter. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/29 "2016-09-21T17:19:20Z")
You proposition that criminals would be more likely to trust an FBI agent over a legitimate reporter for the reason you state is so…bizarre…that I’m not even going to argue with you about it. It qualifies as “Not Even Wrong”. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/30 "2016-09-21T17:34:02Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Congress would never have passed this law without fully considering the long term consequences to others. And it really is Congress’ problem, not the FBI/CIA’s. The mission is set and more lives are saved than are lost. Yes, every member of Congress read all 342 pages of the US PATRIOT Act and made a careful, reasoned decision that weighed the consequences of its provisions against the unprecidented alterations to the goverment’s ability to monitor its own citizens and shield itself from previously established transparency requirements. Oh, wait, they didn’t and don’t: [“We don’t read most of the bills. Do you really know what that would entail if we read every bill that we passed?”](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/profligate-congress-needs-to-read-its-own-bills/article/90785#!) > [@watchwolf49](#): > > Consider the parents of daughters in Northern Nigeria, they see Boko Haram streaming over the hilltops attacking them. All of a sudden, a bunch of doctors/aid workers/journalists whip out Uzis and machine gun down all these terrorists. I’m just not seeing how these poor folk are going to somehow think The West deceived them and mean no goodwill. Please turn off the television and stop forming your opinions on politics and international relations by watching Liam Neesom films on continuous loop. > [@quimper](#): > > 100% agreed. The CIA vaccination program designed to catch Bin Ladin have caused irreparable harm in Pakistan, where the Taliban [regularly kills polio vaccination teams](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36090891) and the soldiers guarding them. But surely their continued sacrifices and the impact on public health of millions are worth it to expedite the termination of one pathetic old man in hiding. Now that we’ve eliminated bin Laden, five years on the scourage of radical militant Islam has been virtually eliminated. America, fuck yeah! Stranger ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/31 "2016-09-22T00:57:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You proposition that criminals would be more likely to trust an FBI agent over a legitimate reporter for the reason you state is so…bizarre…that I’m not even going to argue with you about it. It qualifies as “Not Even Wrong”. Apparently you won’t argue about whether journalism is already dangerous or not either. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/32 "2016-09-22T01:02:43Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > [snip] … But surely their continued sacrifices and the impact on public health of millions are worth it to expedite the termination of one pathetic old man in hiding. Now that we’ve eliminated bin Laden, five years on the scourage of radical militant Islam has been virtually eliminated. America, fuck yeah! > > Stranger Do you have a citation stating that millions of people have refused polio vaccines strictly because one agent posed as a doctor? That doesn’t include Pakistanis who are mad about a USA military strike in their territory, or the intrinsic hatred of the West stemming from the debacle in the late 1940’s … you’re claiming millions refusing vaccines because of how we rubbed out bin Laden. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/33 "2016-09-22T08:58:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let’s not downplay what really happened: This FBI agent wasn’t posing as some small local reporter or newsletter blogger-He was posing as a “staff publisher” for The Associated Press, a major organization with many reporters in dangerous areas of the world. As someone who has considerable experience as being an actual journalist, this is an important distinction. There are so many random people out there with blogs or YouTube channels calling themselves journalists (despite not having any formal qualifications or necessarily working to the same same ethical standards as professional journalists) that I don’t automatically see a problem with an undercover police officer from a major crimes investigating police force (Be they the FBI, Australian Federal Police, Scotland Yard, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police etc) from impersonating a “journalist” in the course of investigating a major and serious crime. Journalists ask a lot of questions; it’s a natural cover in some respects, so if the police officer or agent is pretending to be from a fake (or bodgied up) newspaper/blog, then I don’t see it being a huge issue. However, pretending to be a journalist from a respected and well-known news outlet is not cool; among other things it undermines the trust of that outlet’s actual staff to do their jobs and could have potentially far more serious repercussions down the track too. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342/34 "2016-09-22T21:31:38Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Please turn off the television and stop forming your opinions on politics and international relations by watching Liam Neesom films on continuous loop. Knock it off. Stick to the discussion and leave the personal comments for The BBQ Pit. [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/government-agents-posing-as-journalists-right-or-wrong/766342.md?page=1)