# Governor Jerry Brown signs assisted suicide bill. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669 "2015-10-06T00:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/181 "2015-10-07T04:18:20Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Look, i have pain too. It’s always there. But I can still function. If you can function, YOUR PAIN IS NOTHING LIKE A PATIENT DEALING WITH THE FINAL STAGES OF A TERMINAL ILLNESS. I have sat by the bedside of a woman on the highest amounts of pain killer available, and she never got a moment’s peace. She wept in her sleep. She could not get out of bed. She couldn’t eat. She held on to the last moment, and my heart broke for her with every breath she fought to take. I loved her and her suffering was soul shattering. If it were legal i would have spared her some of that pain when she begged to die. > > Your pain - and mine - is not a shadow on that. Exactly. I said it upthread and I’ll say it again. This joker will never understand, there will be no convincing. The only chance of any revelation won’t happen until he’s on his own deathbed. The last person I had this conversation with was the same way and she simply never got it into her own self-absorbed noggin until she was dying from cancer and couldn’t move, begging for morphine (dose maxed out - and it was fentanyl - more would be lethal) until the end. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/182 "2015-10-07T04:21:39Z")
The bill addresses the question of coercion, which was the only reason I might have had to oppose it. There are sufficient protections to keep anyone from participating in this who might not actually want it. Also, California already guaranteed the right of anyone to refuse medical treatment. Anyone can just stop taking meds, or demand life-support be unplugged, or whatever. So we already had a “right to die” guarantee under our law. A friend of mine lost his father recently: the man (very old and in hellish bad health) chose to stop eating. That’s also perfectly legal. What would opponents ask? Forced feedings? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/183 "2015-10-07T04:27:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The worst conceivable state of existence is preferable to not existing at all. I hope you never find out exactly how wrong this statement is. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/184 "2015-10-07T04:30:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The bill addresses the question of coercion, which was the only reason I might have had to oppose it. There are sufficient protections to keep anyone from participating in this who might not actually want it. > > … I haven’t read the text of the bill, but in other states there is a provision that protects the individual. A MD helps the patient access the medication, but that’s the end of it. No one can help the patient take the medication, as that would be a homicide. The entire EOL act must be solely done by the patient. So, basically, an unconscious person can’t self medicate and no one can assist them in that regard…legally. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/185 "2015-10-07T05:17:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The worst conceivable state of existence is preferable to not existing at all. I’m starting to think think **Smapti** is Lord Voldemort. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/186 "2015-10-07T05:30:51Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I don’t think that’s a decision that a person has the authority to make [for themselves], either. Fucking nanny statism. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/187 "2015-10-07T05:58:41Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I haven’t read the text of the bill, but in other states there is a provision that protects the individual. A MD helps the patient access the medication, but that’s the end of it. No one can help the patient take the medication, as that would be a homicide. The entire EOL act must be solely done by the patient. So, basically, an unconscious person can’t self medicate and no one can assist them in that regard…legally. That’s one of the provisions in the CA bill. Also, coercing someone to end their own life is a felony, and it requires the recommendations of two different doctors. Lots of protections. (Personally, I’d have liked to make it a little easier for someone to pre-assign responsibility to a family member, to allow this to be done for comatose patients or others who cannot self-medicate. A variant on “do not resuscitate” directives. But I can understand why that wasn’t included, and I’m not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. This seems to be a good bill.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/188 "2015-10-07T06:33:52Z")
From what I remember, **Smapti** had a close relative who committed suicide (father maybe?) and decided right then and there that suicide was the coward’s way out and was never right. At one point, he admitted that this biased his thinking, and that maybe he should, at the very least, not participate in these threads. And I was willing to let it go. But he keeps doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/189 "2015-10-07T06:53:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I’m starting to think think **Smapti** is Lord Voldemort. More a reverse Jesus: others must suffer so he may live. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/190 "2015-10-07T07:38:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If my family history is any indication, I will someday lose my mind I’m sorry sir, I have some bad news for you. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/191 "2015-10-07T08:06:55Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Speaking 9-11, what about the plane that crashed in Shanksville? Do you think Todd Beamer and his fellow passengers were cowards for fighting and choosing death, instead of thinking, “oh gee, maybe we’ll get out of this alive, even though a bunch of other people might die, if we just sit here and co-operate!” > > No, those guys were fucking heros. They did not choose death. They did not kill themselves for the sake of killing themselves, their deaths were an unfortunate consequence of their efforts to directly save lives. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/192 "2015-10-07T09:08:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Perhaps, if you hold the opinion that a painful life is not worth living. I disagree. Note to other posters: Do not try to debate suicide or assisted death with **Smapti** - his opposition is deeply rooted because of an incident when he was 10. You can smash your head against the proverbial brick wall all you want. A position dating back to the most formative age of a person is unlikely to have any effect. If and when **Smapti** is facing a horrid, painful future, he (?) might change his mind. Not until. **Smapti** - my deepest sympathy for your trauma - it came at the most crucial time of your life. Maybe you should just skip threads about suicide and/or assisted death. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/193 "2015-10-07T10:01:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You describe _all_ governance. > > If the value of their life is disregarded, then the value of my own, and everyone else’s, is diminished as well. I strongly disagree that all governance is simply hurting its citizenry because it feels it knows more than it’s constituency. Again, I must say again the philosophy is sociopathic. You clearly state that someone that you don’t know or care about ceasing to suffer diminishes your own life. Absurd and absurdly selfish. It’s all about you then. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/194 "2015-10-07T10:07:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [Hospiced cancer patients can and have done scarier things than that.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/28/terminal-cancer-patient-skydives/13259749/) > > Not all of us are so cowardly and terrified by the idea of being in pain that we would rather cease to exist than do something that scares us. > > [He died a few months later.](http://www.startribune.com/obituaries/detail/39409/?fullname=brian-w-nagle) Should he have tapped out sooner? But some are and you’re so without empathy that you’d not only wish them to suffer but scare them to death. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/195 "2015-10-07T10:09:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > When it’s a decision that has a potential impact on _my_ own mortality, then yes, it is a terrible idea. > > Tell that to **iiiandyiii**. You’re repeating yourself. We have determined you only care about yourself. How does it affect **Smapti** , even when it doesn’t remotely affect you. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/196 "2015-10-07T10:12:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Today, you declare that people with a few months left to live can choose to kill themselves. > > Five years from now, “a few months” becomes a few years. > > Ten years from now, it becomes a valid option the minute you get a terminal diagnosis. > > In 20 years, it’s _expected_ that you’ll choose to die when you’re informed that your prognosis isn’t good. > > In 25, people who don’t want to commit suicide are being publicly chastised for being “selfish” and wasting government healthcare money and their kids’ inheritance. > > In 30, Congress passes legislation ensuring that if people want to insist on living after they’re “supposed” to die, then they have to pay for 100% of their expenses out of pocket. > > In 50, the government just decides when your life isn’t worth living anymore, and administers the suicide drug in your sleep, just like you’d agree to do yourself if you weren’t insane and insisting on being a drain on the economy. Ahh, so you saw Logans Run and thought it was a documentary. That explains a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/197 "2015-10-07T10:16:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The value of my life is lessened when the message that suicide is permissible is promulgated and people are encouraged to kill themselves rather than deal with their problems. > > So is the value of _your_ life, and the lives of everyone you care about. You should be concerned for all of them when they’re being taught that it’s OK to eat a bullet if your life isn’t everything you ever hoped it would be. I’m not seeing any encouraging going on except in your fantasies. Cite for people being encouraged to kill themselves rather than deal with their problems. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/198 "2015-10-07T10:23:39Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > _types a lot of things_ > > _is frustrated_ > > _deletes, types more things_ > > _notes that we are not in the Pit_ > > _deletes it all_ > [@Derleth](#): > > You have not only lost this argument, you’ve thrown away whatever respect most of us once had for you. > > The _nice, generous_ interpretation is that you’re totally irrational on this subject, due to operating from premises so divorced from reality any conclusions you draw from them are similarly alien to actual experience. > > The interpretation most people will have is that you’re a singularly incompetent troll who’s taking a position so extreme that it destroys the uncertainty trolling is built on: Is it real or is it a put-on? > > In short, if a good troll involves claiming Trump is a foreign policy genius, you’re on the level of shouting your admiration for Josef Mengele at Yad Vashem. \*\*Smapti \*\*literally walked in on his mother’s suicide attempt when he was, I think, 10 years old. While he himself is now a grown man, these posts are the manifest fears of that 10 year old child. He will literally never be convinced by anything anyone can say, by no amount of logic and reason and appeals to compassion, until that hurting child heals. I think there may be some value in continuing to address his arguments for others to read rebuttals and know they are not alone in supporting death with dignity, but please don’t feel frustrated, or even particularly put out, if/when you’re unsuccessful in breaking through his armor. It’s the only thing holding his psyche together. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/199 "2015-10-07T10:30:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You can not and you should not, because any such decision affects millions of other lives in a way that you as an individual do not have the right to do. > > Your life is worth it. Suicides have happened since humanity has been around; how has this affected millions of other lives? I’m pretty sure all of them made such a decision. Since suicide predates governments who decided that they didn’t have the right? Who gave them the right to decide this? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/200 "2015-10-07T10:30:44Z")
(Too late to edit, but I finally found the link to Smapti’s tale: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18116633&postcount=106](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18116633&postcount=106) ) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669.md?page=11)