# Governor Jerry Brown signs assisted suicide bill. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669 "2015-10-06T00:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/301 "2015-10-29T15:30:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Perhaps I am, but I don’t see that _anyone_ is arguing from an emotion-free standpoint here. At the same time you’re accusing me of not thinking logically, you advocate for suicide on the basis that dying of cancer isn’t “pretty to watch”. > > I’m not afraid of a painful death. I know that the final years or months of my life are probably going to be painful, and I’m probably going to be bedridden and alone. That doesn’t frighten me nearly as much as the idea that it will eventually _end_. So why do you insist that your feelings must apply to others such that you would ban this thing that many others feel they need? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/302 "2015-10-29T19:55:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Perhaps I am, but I don’t see that _anyone_ is arguing from an emotion-free standpoint here. At the same time you’re accusing me of not thinking logically, you advocate for suicide on the basis that dying of cancer isn’t “pretty to watch”. A particularly callous and stupid way to describe the argument. > [@Smapti](#): > > I’m not afraid of a painful death. I know that the final years or months of my life are probably going to be painful, and I’m probably going to be bedridden and alone. That doesn’t frighten me nearly as much as the idea that it will eventually _end_. And I would support your right to make that decision. Live Long and Fight On, Brother! But I will not fault others for making a different decision. And I will always oppose those who want to take away their right to make that decision for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/303 "2015-10-29T20:27:58Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I’m posting, not to participate in the **Smapti** show, but as an excuse to post my sig. > If you are ever in crisis, if you ever need a voice in the the darkness, please reach out. Someone will catch your hand. > > .Need a caring ear, or know someone who does? > National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255 > Veterans Crisis Line: 1-800-273-8255 and Press 1 Worth quoting, including the extra effort to include the Sig. Thank you and other people, staff and volunteers, for being out there to offer that saving hand. Sort of like “Catchers in the Rye,” trying to intercept people before they fall off that cliff-edge. Real heroes, and thank you! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/304 "2015-10-29T21:12:56Z")
Thanks, **Trin**. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/305 "2015-10-29T22:01:46Z")
> [@andros](#): > > If you are ever in crisis, if you ever need a voice in the the darkness, please reach out. Someone will catch your hand. I endorse this. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/306 "2015-11-01T00:00:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Perhaps I am, but I don’t see that _anyone_ is arguing from an emotion-free standpoint here. At the same time you’re accusing me of not thinking logically, you advocate for suicide on the basis that dying of cancer isn’t “pretty to watch”. That isn’t what I meant, and you bloody well know it. Your fear of dying doesn’t trump everyone else’s choices. Like I said, if that’s the case you need an advance directive or living will. That way, if you’re in a state where you can no longer speak for yourself, your wishes will be followed. Unlike you, however, not everyone is afraid of death. Just as you call people who commit suicide “cowards”, they may consider you one because of your extreme fear. Stop and think about it. ESPECIALLY after your disgusting comments about people who jumped from the Twin Towers. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/307 "2015-11-01T05:41:07Z")
Why is anyone STILL responding to the scared little boy? His irrational fear of death does not warrant getting these threads moved to the Pit. Ignore his baiting and stick to the topic at hand. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/308 "2015-11-07T13:54:29Z")
> [@](#): > > An early advocate for physician-assisted suicide used the now-legal procedure to end his own life Tuesday. Peter Rasmussen, an Oregon oncologist, was one of the first, and few, physicians who spoke out in support of Oregon’s controversial Death with Dignity ballot measure in the 1990s — threatening his career and reputation to do so. He had brain cancer. His wife says he dried peacefully after taking medication to end his life. > [@](#): > > “Most of us don’t fear death nearly as much as the suffering that may be endured as we approach that death.” And that, as they say, is that. [http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/11/06/3719986/rasmussen-death-with-dignity/](http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/11/06/3719986/rasmussen-death-with-dignity/) ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/309 "2015-11-07T14:00:29Z")
May he rest in peace. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/310 "2015-11-07T16:05:01Z")
Not posting with logic? If you predict that the rest of your life will have more pain than pleasure it makes perfect sense to choose the option where you’re not at a happiness deficit. Most people aren’t in situations where they expect a net negative in happiness for the rest of their lives, so they don’t kill themselves. It’s pretty simple. No threat to the continued survival of humanity. Not that you give a shit about that or whether the person is 4 or 40. You’re a broken husk of a person. A former human being. Why don’t you let the choices about humanity be decided by those of us that still have some? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/311 "2015-11-07T16:57:09Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > If you predict that the rest of your life will have more pain than pleasure it makes perfect sense to choose the option where you’re not at a happiness deficit. And if your prediction is wrong, there’s no taking back that choice - not that a person who predicts the rest of their life will be miserable can be trusted to make a rational decision on that important of a matter anyway. > [@](#): > > “Most of us don’t fear death nearly as much as the suffering that may be endured as we approach that death.” And those people have got it all backwards and the mindset they promote is cowardly and anti-human. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/312 "2015-11-07T17:37:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And those people have got it all backwards and the mindset they promote is cowardly and anti-human. Some people think fearing death is cowardly. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/313 "2015-11-07T17:38:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And those people have got it all backwards and the mindset they promote is cowardly and anti-human. We’ve been through this with Smapti before: > [@Smapti is Pitted](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/936): > > Smapti is broken and cannot be fixed. His youth was so chaotic and negative that he never developed a sense of security and perspective, and he craved for security. Now, in his early thirties, he has learned that the best way for him to cope is to reduce a complex world into black and white, and to find security by identifying with authority. Facts and reason are not relevant to him, for they cause questioning rather than provide security. He does the best he can with what he has, but that has led him to hold some horrifying opinions. Sadly, Smapti remains not fully human. > [@Smapti is Pitted](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/939): > > In my books, condemning a person for not suffering long enough while dying is inhuman. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/314 "2015-11-07T17:47:00Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Some people think fearing death is cowardly. Fearing death is more rational than fearing suffering. Suffering is part of what it means to be human. There is joy in suffering because it means we can still feel, there is pride in enduring that which others fear, and there is virtue in setting an example for others in pain. There is no virtue, pride, or joy in death. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/315 "2015-11-07T17:48:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > \*\*And if your prediction is wrong, there’s no taking back that choice \*\*- not that a person who predicts the rest of their life will be miserable can be trusted to make a rational decision on that important of a matter anyway. And you won’t know, that’s the beauty of it. Who trusts a dead person to make decisions? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/316 "2015-11-07T18:25:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Fearing death is more rational than fearing suffering. Suffering is part of what it means to be human. There is joy in suffering because it means we can still feel, there is pride in enduring that which others fear, and there is virtue in setting an example for others in pain. We’re all going to die someday – that’s another part of what it means to be human. As for “suffering is noble”, fuck that shit. Nobody should have to suffer just because hyou think there’s something “joyful” about it. Nobody should be _forced_ to choose that. I don’t think you understand that – nobody is being taken off life support against their will. It’s simply choosing to go out on one’s own terms. > [@](#): > > There is no virtue, pride, or joy in death. There’s also no virtue in saying that people who jumped from the Twin Towers on 9/11 were cowards. Quite the opposite. It’s absolutely disgusting. I’d also point out that many HAVE faced death without fear, and one SHOULD be proud of the way they died, to save others – as I mentioned before, those on Flight 93. You won’t risk your miserable hide for anyone else, no matter how small that risk is. You say “there’s always hope”, and expect people to go on suffering. But when someone says, “hey, you know, these people need help”, you refuse if it means even the tiniest little bit of danger to your own worthless self. You’re a hypocrite and a coward and you should do the world a favor and go hide in a cave somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/317 "2015-11-07T20:45:40Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > We’re all going to die someday – that’s another part of what it means to be human. Bull. Death is _antithetical_ to humanity. The entire history of mankind, all our greatest technological, social, and cultural achievements, have been done in the name of _conquering_ death, both metaphorically and literally. To resign to death is to give up on humanity. > [@](#): > > Nobody should have to suffer just because hyou think there’s something “joyful” about it. Nobody should be _forced_ to choose that. I don’t think you understand that – nobody is being taken off life support against their will. It’s simply choosing to go out on one’s own terms. It’s not a choice anyone has the right to make, for themselves or anyone else. > [@](#): > > There’s also no virtue in saying that people who jumped from the Twin Towers on 9/11 were cowards. Quite the opposite. It’s absolutely disgusting. It’s a factual statement, not a question of virtue or aesthetics. > [@](#): > > I’d also point out that many HAVE faced death without fear, and one SHOULD be proud of the way they died, to save others – as I mentioned before, those on Flight 93. Nobody on Flight 93 committed suicide but the hijackers, so it’s not relevant to the topic at hand. > [@](#): > > You’re a hypocrite and a coward and you should do the world a favor and go hide in a cave somewhere. I’m not afraid of suffering. You are so terrified by the notion that you would prefer to destroy everything that you are, ever have been, and ever could be to avoid it. Your accusation rings hollow. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/318 "2015-11-07T21:05:28Z")
BTW, I do actually have some misgivings on the subject. I fall on the side that’s it’s probably better to give the choice, but I also know first hand that there are times where you think suicide might be the better option when it isn’t. So I’m very much for limits on this sort of thing. But I don’t feel we can have that sort of discussion on this board with **Smapti** around. Sure, if everyone would ignore him we could, but he says such noxious things that I don’t think that’ll happen. I know I don’t really want to come back to this thread to have it. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/319 "2015-11-07T22:35:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Bull. Death is _antithetical_ to humanity. _You_ are antithetical to humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/320 "2015-11-07T22:48:35Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > He had brain cancer. His wife says he died peacefully after taking medication to end his life. > > And that, as they say, is that. > > [http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/11/06/3719986/rasmussen-death-with-dignity/](http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/11/06/3719986/rasmussen-death-with-dignity/) Thank you, Peter Rasmussen, for your courage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669.md?page=17)