# Governor Jerry Brown signs assisted suicide bill. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669 "2015-10-06T00:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/61 "2015-10-06T23:48:47Z")
Smapti’s a stupid asshole. You’re not gonna unstupid unasshole him by making intelligent arguments. It will require Nazi brain surgery. [Camera pulls a closeup of Lobohan bringing a large, archaic syringe near his face and squirting some of its contents out] “Strap him to ze bed!” ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/62 "2015-10-06T23:50:38Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I’m moving this thread to the Pit and here’s why: > > It just doesn’t fit well in this forum. Some may say or think that it doesn’t have to be moved, but the reality of it is: This subject is a very, very hot button type of issue that is going to cause some rather hostile replies or strongly worded debates. Because of that, I had two choices: Move it to GD or the Pit. I am choosing the Pit since it seems that the OP is more upset at the action rather than wanting to debate any issue regarding it. No, I’m thrilled that it was signed, but I don’t care that you moved it to the pit, I ain’t afraid of that place. 🙂 I honestly was not expecting a debate or anything. I was just making the announcement that it had been signed. I thought the arguing part was over. I expected about 5 people to say yeah and that’s about it. Boy was I wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Aangelica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Aangelica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aangelica)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/63 "2015-10-06T23:52:55Z")
Clearly, **Smapti** is not at home to Mister Logic or Mister Reason. Since he’s so gung-ho for extending every human life as long as humanly possible, I presume he is also anti-death penalty, of the opinion that cigarette companies ought to be forcibly disbanded by the government, and certain that everyone who enjoys them some bacon ought to be locked up until they can be depended upon to stop that nonsense. Also, we probably ought to outlaw ice cream, and Skittles are just _ **RIGHT OUT** _. When ought I to expect my mandatory exercise monitor to appear in the mail? Cars definitely have to go also - they’re so very dangerous! Adults make literally thousands decisions over their lives that may lead to them having a shorter life. Diet choices, exercise choices, decisions about what (if any) controlled substances to abuse, decisions to pursue high-stress occupations (Quick! Outlaw practicing medicine and police and fire departments!), decisions to serve in the military. Deciding to skip the last few months of a life to be lived in horrifying, uncontrollable pain is no dafter than deciding that I’d rather eat french fries than live whatever negligible portion of my life they deprive me of (I’m sure a nutrition scientist somewhere has done this math - or possibly an insurance company actuary). Frankly, such a decision has a whole lot more justification behind it than, for example, my decision to skip my workout yesterday because I wanted to go play cards with my husband instead. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/64 "2015-10-06T23:57:52Z")
> [@Aangelica](#): > > of the opinion that cigarette companies ought to be forcibly disbanded by the government This is about the only part of your entire post that represents an accurate description of my beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/65 "2015-10-06T23:58:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It certainly does - and I’m far more comfortable with that than with the idea of the government deciding when our lives are no longer worth living, which is the consequence of your way of thought. But that’s a total strawman of Gov. Brown’s bill. The bill doesn’t give the government _any_ right to decide when our lives are no longer worth living. It gives that right strictly to _each individual!_ The states where assisted suicide is illegal are the ones where the government has a say. A person dying of a terminal illness might want to check out early under circumstances of his or her choosing, but the almighty government still has the power to say _“No. You’re going to stay alive and suffer 'til the bitter end whether you like it or not.”_ Besides, I wasn’t asking a binary question. I was asking, if the government has the right to say how you die (which, to an extent, they do in states where assisted suicide is illegal), then it follows that they should also have the right to tell you how to live. The reasoning behind both is the same: Longevity simply _must_ be extended, no matter what. Given that, you should support any hypothetical government initiative to force people to live healthily _without_ comparing it to any assisted suicide bills. Do you? > [@Smapti](#): > > Then democracy is invalid. Umm…how do you figure that? > [@Smapti](#): > > No, the moral choice is to alleviate their pain and eradicate the cause of their illness. And if neither of those things is possible? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/66 "2015-10-06T23:59:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > This is about the only part of your entire post that represents an accurate description of my beliefs. Given that you’re stupidly irrational, not being able to guess your shitty opinions is hardly a reason to chastise someone. It’s a good thing to not be able to think like you, you’re defective. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/67 "2015-10-07T00:02:20Z")
well, they’ve had this similar law in Oregon for some time, and so far I don’t see dogs lying down with cats, or anything. According to Smapti, I should have felt diminished in some way, immediately, I guess? Hi **Maggie** , hope you’re doing well. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/68 "2015-10-07T00:03:46Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > The bill doesn’t give the government any right to decide when our lives are no longer worth living. It establishes the precedent that a life lived in pain is not worth living, which, when coupled with the fact that a person can use their power of attorney to order the death of another, opens the door to the state deciding on a person’s behalf when their life is no longer worth living. > [@](#): > > Besides, I wasn’t asking a binary question. I was asking, if the government has the right to say how you die (which, to an extent, they do in states where assisted suicide is illegal), then it follows that they should also have the right to tell you how to live. Which they _do_. That’s sort of the entire purpose of government. > [@](#): > > The reasoning behind both is the same: Longevity simply _must_ be extended, no matter what. Given that, you should support any hypothetical government initiative to force people to live healthily _without_ comparing it to any assisted suicide bills. Do you? I would need to see the legislation to know if I agreed with its specifics or not, but in general, yes. > [@](#): > > Umm…how do you figure that? If the people have the power to make law, then they have the power to make laws determining the worth of other human lives. The option we are presented is whether we want to decide that life is valuable and should be preserved whenever possible, or whether life is cheap and isn’t worth living if it’s less than ideal. > [@](#): > > And if neither of those things is possible? Then you’re not trying hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/69 "2015-10-07T00:04:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I don’t think that’s a decision that a person has the authority to make, either. Apparently you’ve never watched someone suffer and die. I sincerely hope you never have to. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/70 "2015-10-07T00:05:05Z")
> [@Aangelica](#): > > Clearly, **Smapti** is not at home to Mister Logic or Mister Reason. > > Since he’s so gung-ho for extending every human life as long as humanly possible, I presume he is also anti-death penalty, \ Are you kidding? **Smapti** LOVES the death penalty, and is 100% convinced that it has never been carried out on an innocent person. Well, not in the last forty years, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/71 "2015-10-07T00:06:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then you’re not trying hard enough. Jesus, you’re fucking stupid. What are you, a child? Do you think willpower shrinks cancer tumors? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/72 "2015-10-07T00:07:39Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Do you think willpower shrinks cancer tumors? Do you think suicide will cure cancer? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/73 "2015-10-07T00:08:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I don’t think that’s a decision that a person has the authority to make, either. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Apparently you’ve never watched someone suffer and die. I sincerely hope you never have to. I, on the other hand, sincerely hope he never _gets_ to. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/74 "2015-10-07T00:10:07Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Apparently you’ve never watched someone suffer and die. I sincerely hope you never have to. _Nobody_ should ever have to. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/75 "2015-10-07T00:10:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Do you think suicide will cure cancer? I think suicide will end the ceaseless pain and misery someone might be suffering due to cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/76 "2015-10-07T00:11:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > _Nobody_ should ever have to. Drivel. People suffer and die. It’s a fact. We need to deal with that fact, and not live in a comfortable delusion of absolutes like you’ve walled off your brain behind. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/77 "2015-10-07T00:11:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Perhaps, if you hold the opinion that a painful life is not worth living. I disagree. No one will force you to do this. Others feel differently. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/78 "2015-10-07T00:11:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Do you think suicide will cure cancer? Is that even relevant to the discussion? This is about a human choosing to avoid further suffering when suffering is inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/79 "2015-10-07T00:12:09Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I think suicide will end the ceaseless pain and misery someone might be suffering due to cancer. _Life_ is ceaseless pain and misery. Why should any person currently alive choose to continue living knowing that all that awaits them is pain, suffering, and death? Why should the entire human race not commit mass suicide right now? > [@Morgenstern](#): > > This is about a human choosing to avoid further suffering when suffering is inevitable. Suffering is inevitable for _all_ of us. No person now living, who has ever lived, or ever will life, will never experience suffering. If death is preferable to suffering, then why choose to live at all? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/80 "2015-10-07T00:13:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, _that’s_ goofy. The worst conceivable state of existence is preferable to not existing at all. Maybe for you. Do you at least accept the possibility that other humans might feel differently? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669.md?page=5)