# Governor Jerry Brown signs assisted suicide bill. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669 "2015-10-06T00:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/121 "2015-10-07T00:52:14Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > _Your ONLY choice is to jump to a quick death or spend several minutes burning/choking to death in unbearable pain._ Then I burn and I choke. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Other people have experienced such a pain. I don’t believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/122 "2015-10-07T00:52:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I cannot imagine a degree of pain that would make non-existence preferable. Again, your lack of imagination isn’t the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/123 "2015-10-07T00:54:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I cannot imagine a degree of pain that would make non-existence preferable. That’s the problem. You don’t understand what’s involved. But that doesn’t stop you from having an opinion does it? ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/124 "2015-10-07T00:55:57Z")
I think the issue here is that if people are allowed to take their own lives then the Smaptiville PD will have fewer targets. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/125 "2015-10-07T00:56:53Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > That’s the problem. You don’t understand what’s involved. I understand pain. I’ve known pain my entire life. Pain doesn’t scare me. Seems to me that it’s others here who are so afraid of pain that they’d rather die than experience it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/126 "2015-10-07T01:00:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I understand pain. I’ve known pain my entire life. Pain doesn’t scare me. > > Seems to me that it’s others here who are so afraid of pain that they’d rather die than experience it. This is ludicrous coming from someone as cowardly as you. You’re literally the most craven person I’ve ever communicated with in any way, at least going by your posts. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/127 "2015-10-07T01:02:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I understand pain. I’ve known pain my entire life. Pain doesn’t scare me. > > Seems to me that it’s others here who are so afraid of pain that they’d rather die than experience it. 😕 :rolleyes: What I do know is that the ones looking to end their lives have experienced pain for a long time, in many cases more pain than yours and clearly they do not have a chance to get better. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/128 "2015-10-07T01:03:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I understand pain. I’ve known pain my entire life. Pain doesn’t scare me. > > Seems to me that it’s others here who are so afraid of pain that they’d rather die than experience it. Reading your nonsense, I have also come to understand pain quite well. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/129 "2015-10-07T01:09:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Terri Schiavo. Bad example. Terri Schiavo was braindead for years before she actually stopped breathing. She suffered massive, irreparable brain damage and was in an irreversible persistent vegetative state. Not only was there no hope of her recovering, there wasn’t even any hope of her achieving a _partial_ improvement. She had undergone intensive treatment for years to absolutely no avail whatsoever. Even if she’d lived another 50 years and died of old age she wouldn’t have improved. Even if they’d grown her a new brain she wouldn’t have improved. Everything we are is contained within our brains. As brain scans showed, Terri Schiavo’s brain was essentially soup. By all but the most pedantic and outdated definitions of life, she was dead already. > [@Smapti](#): > > I would not personally be happy with it, but I would abide by it. But that’s what I don’t get. Logically, you _should_ be happy with it. Such a law would undoubtedly extend the lives of a great many people. Why wouldn’t you be happy with it? > [@Smapti](#): > > Of course they do - otherwise, absolute pacifism is the only acceptable way of living, and I don’t think you believe that. Well, in a perfect world, we _would_ all be absolute pacifists. Unfortunately, we don’t live in a perfect world. We live in a world where, occasionally, other people try to kill us. When that happens, those other people are deciding that our lives have a certain value, and that that value is less than the value of whatever it is they want to kill us for. When we defend ourselves, we’re merely exercising our right to enforce our belief that they are wrong about that. > [@Smapti](#): > > Nothing, which is why I would prefer not to establish a precedent that that value can or should be lowered. Then you _should_ be in support of this law. In countries where assisted suicide is banned, the government is effectively saying to you, Smapti, that your life is worth X. Since they’ve made that judgement, it follows that they can _change_ that judgement if it suits them. The assisted suicide bill removes altogether the government’s right to have _any_ opinion on the value of your life, and gives that responsibility squarely back to _you_. Given your posts in this thread, you should logically be in favour of such a move. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/130 "2015-10-07T01:11:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@Tithonus](#): > > > > Your only choice is to jump to a quick death or spend several minutes burning/choking to death in unbearable pain. > > Then I burn and I choke. Mental. Just mental. That’s it. I’m out. Good luck, everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/131 "2015-10-07T01:11:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I cannot imagine a degree of pain that would make non-existence preferable. You’re what 12 years old? So it’s a bit understandable that you haven’t had a close loved one die a long agonizing death being kept alive and in pain only because of modern machines and medicines that keep you in a drugged out state 90% of the time and so much so that you can’t even talk. And the times when you are coherent to talk all you talk about is how much pain you are in and that you would rather die. That was my grandma. My dad couldn’t let her go so he refused to let the doctors let here go, for almost a year. He had all legal power over her because she had had alzheimers for several years prior to being hospitalized. The first time I was there when she was semi-coherent and mumbled about the pain and wanting to die I told my dad I would no longer speak to him as long he kept my grandma in the hell she was in. That was about 3 months in to her stay. That was a couple of years ago. I still have little respect for him. He was selfish and, like you, he would rather keep his mother alive and in pain and requesting for death to stop the pain, for almost a year, than to lose her. You know not of what you speak. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/132 "2015-10-07T01:14:00Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > Bad example. Terri Schiavo was braindead for years before she actually stopped breathing. She suffered massive, irreparable brain damage and was in an irreversible persistent vegetative state. Not only was there no hope of her recovering, there wasn’t even any hope of her achieving a _partial_ improvement. She had undergone intensive treatment for years to absolutely no avail whatsoever. Even if she’d lived another 50 years and died of old age she wouldn’t have improved. Even if they’d grown her a new brain she wouldn’t have improved. Everything we are is contained within our brains. As brain scans showed, Terri Schiavo’s brain was essentially soup. By all but the most pedantic and outdated definitions of life, she was dead already. So you agree that it’s OK to order the death of an innocent person without their consent, then. > [@](#): > > But that’s what I don’t get. Logically, you _should_ be happy with it. Such a law would undoubtedly extend the lives of a great many people. Why wouldn’t you be happy with it? Because my ability to enjoy my life would be lessened under such circumstances, and the potential benefit of such a law would not be sufficient to compensate for it. > [@](#): > > Then you _should_ be in support of this law. In countries where assisted suicide is banned, the government is effectively to you, Smapti, that your life is worth X. Since they’ve made that judgement, it follows that they can _change_ that judgement if it suits them. Correct. > [@](#): > > The assisted suicide bill removes altogether the government’s right to have _any_ opinion on the value of your life, and gives that responsibility squarely back to _you_. Given your posts in this thread, you should logically be in favour of such a move. Incorrect. Such a bill states that the government values my life less, since it is unwilling to intervene to save me from myself. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/133 "2015-10-07T01:18:41Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > You’re what 12 years old? (checks join date) Not unless I registered when I was still in the womb. > [@](#): > > So it’s a bit understandable that you haven’t had a close loved one die a long agonizing death being kept alive and in pain only because of modern machines and medicines that keep you in a drugged out state 90% of the time and so much so that you can’t even talk. And the times when you are coherent to talk all you talk about is how much pain you are in and that you would rather die. > > That was my grandma… I’m sorry for your loss. My grandmother is in the late stages of Alzheimer’s. The last time I saw her, she thought I was still in high school and she had no idea what state we were in. But she’s _happy_. Some like you would say that she’d be better off dead than in the delirious haze she exists in. I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/134 "2015-10-07T01:18:51Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > **Derleth** is reiterating his point about the Morality Dispensers and the [Because I Said So Mandate](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18488398&postcount=19) which he first propounded in a thread this past July, about CatholicVote dot org putting out a video whining about the SCOTUS decision in _Obergefell v. Hodges_. > > He appears to be equating **Smapti** ’s reaction with that of CatholicVote dot org. Thanks for the links. Thanks **Derleth** for clarifying, totally get it now. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/135 "2015-10-07T01:23:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > … > > My grandmother is in the late stages of Alzheimer’s. The last time I saw her, she thought I was still in high school and she had no idea what state we were in. But she’s _happy_. Some like you would say that she’d be better off dead than in the delirious haze she exists in. I disagree. No one has said anything about Alzheimer’s qualifying for EOL options. Please try to stay withing the lines when coloring. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/136 "2015-10-07T01:24:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Perhaps, if you hold the opinion that a painful life is not worth living. I disagree. The alternative is to force someone who feels differently than you to suffer needlessly to please your opinion. I can’t more strongly disagree with this arrogance. It’s their life not yours. To think otherwise is most sociopathic. Totally without empathy. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/137 "2015-10-07T01:27:41Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > No one has said anything about Alzheimer’s qualifying for EOL options. Do you believe it should? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/138 "2015-10-07T01:30:26Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > The alternative is to force someone who feels differently than you to suffer needlessly to please your opinion. You describe _all_ governance. > [@](#): > > It’s their life not yours. If the value of their life is disregarded, then the value of my own, and everyone else’s, is diminished as well. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/139 "2015-10-07T01:32:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > My knees ache. My left foot screams in agony every step I take. My mouth is constantly full of knives in the places where my teeth used to be. My chest and throat are constantly burning. My thighs chafe when I walk. On days when I don’t have to force myself out of bed to go to work, I lie for hours before I can even get up because of how sore I am all over. Nothing makes any of this pain go away and I have no expectation that it will ever get better… Yes, you know all about constant debilitating soul-crushing agony, just like a terminal cancer patient. [Oh, wait…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG0uRp4Z3cA) ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/140 "2015-10-07T01:32:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You describe _all_ governance. Wait, all governance involves forcing others to suffer needlessly? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669.md?page=8)