# Governor Jerry Brown signs assisted suicide bill. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669 "2015-10-06T00:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/141 "2015-10-07T01:35:21Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > Yes, you know all about constant debilitating soul-crushing agony, just like a terminal cancer patient. > > [Oh, wait…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG0uRp4Z3cA) Wow, of all the things I was expecting when I clicked that link I was _not_ expecting that! Is that really Smapti? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/142 "2015-10-07T01:38:13Z")
That’s me, yes, and that’s the most terrifying thing I’ve ever done. I don’t think it’s relevant to this discussion, though. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/143 "2015-10-07T01:40:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That’s me, yes, and that’s the most terrifying thing I’ve ever done. > > I don’t think it’s relevant to this discussion, though. The pain you live with must be truly bone shattering. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/144 "2015-10-07T01:44:19Z")
I live in pain. But I still manage to live. [If a cancer patient jumps out of a plane](http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/85-Year-Old-Freeport-Man-Goes-Skydiving--305410121.html), does that mean he wasn’t really that sick in the first place? Maybe he should have just killed himself instead of deciding to enjoy his life in spite of the pain he was going through. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/145 "2015-10-07T01:45:20Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > The pain you live with must be truly bone shattering. Well, yeah… I mean _chafing thighs_, even. he knows all about bone-crushing pain. Why can’t those pussy cancer patients suck it up like he does? ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/146 "2015-10-07T01:48:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That’s me, yes, and that’s the most terrifying thing I’ve ever done. > > I don’t think it’s relevant to this discussion, though. It shows how much your debilitating pain is just like that of a hospiced cancer patient. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/147 "2015-10-07T01:51:49Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > It shows how much your debilitating pain is just like that of a hospiced cancer patient. [Hospiced cancer patients can and have done scarier things than that.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/28/terminal-cancer-patient-skydives/13259749/) Not all of us are so cowardly and terrified by the idea of being in pain that we would rather cease to exist than do something that scares us. [He died a few months later.](http://www.startribune.com/obituaries/detail/39409/?fullname=brian-w-nagle) Should he have tapped out sooner? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/148 "2015-10-07T01:54:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I live in pain. But I still manage to live. [If L=“[http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/85-Year-Old-Freeport-Man-Goes-Skydiving--305410121.html](http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/85-Year-Old-Freeport-Man-Goes-Skydiving--305410121.html)”]If a cancer patient jumps out of a plane, does that mean he wasn’t really that sick in the first place? Maybe he should have just killed himself instead of deciding to enjoy his life in spite of the pain he was going through. Not all pain is the same. If a cancer patient feels able to cross off bucket list items, more power to him. If he decides the constant unrelenting pain is more than he can handle. …again - his or her decision. Not yours. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/149 "2015-10-07T01:57:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Not all of us are so cowardly and terrified by the idea of being in pain that we would rather cease to exist than do something that scares us. How about you defer to the person going through that pain, instead of making decisions for them? Is that such a terrible idea? Also, knock off that rhetoric about people suffering being “cowardly”. You sound like a fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/150 "2015-10-07T01:59:24Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > How about you defer to the person going through that pain, instead of making decisions for them? Is that such a terrible idea? When it’s a decision that has a potential impact on _my_ own mortality, then yes, it is a terrible idea. > [@](#): > > Also, knock off that rhetoric about people suffering being “cowardly”. You sound like a fucking idiot. Tell that to **iiiandyiii**. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/151 "2015-10-07T02:00:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > When it’s a decision that has a potential impact on _my_ own mortality, then yes, it is a terrible idea. How does it impact your own mortality? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/152 "2015-10-07T02:03:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I cannot imagine a degree of pain that would make non-existence preferable. Good for you. Some people feel otherwise. However, as much as you don’t fear pain, others feel that way about death. Why are their feelings any less valid than your’s? You’re so terrified of it, that you wouldn’t even stop to help others, even though there’s virtually no risk to yourself. Speaking 9-11, what about the plane that crashed in Shanksville? Do you think Todd Beamer and his fellow passengers were cowards for fighting and choosing death, instead of thinking, “oh gee, maybe we’ll get out of this alive, even though a bunch of other people might die, if we just sit here and co-operate!” No, those guys were fucking heros. You don’t fear pain, that’s fine. But that doesn’t mean those who do are cowards. If you choose to live your life that way, more power to you. That doesn’t give you the right to make that choice for others, any more than it would give someone else the right to make that choice for you. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/153 "2015-10-07T02:04:09Z")
Never stick your dick in the crazy. I’m out of this one. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/154 "2015-10-07T02:06:34Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > How does it impact your own mortality? Today, you declare that people with a few months left to live can choose to kill themselves. Five years from now, “a few months” becomes a few years. Ten years from now, it becomes a valid option the minute you get a terminal diagnosis. In 20 years, it’s _expected_ that you’ll choose to die when you’re informed that your prognosis isn’t good. In 25, people who don’t want to commit suicide are being publicly chastised for being “selfish” and wasting government healthcare money and their kids’ inheritance. In 30, Congress passes legislation ensuring that if people want to insist on living after they’re “supposed” to die, then they have to pay for 100% of their expenses out of pocket. In 50, the government just decides when your life isn’t worth living anymore, and administers the suicide drug in your sleep, just like you’d agree to do yourself if you weren’t insane and insisting on being a drain on the economy. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/155 "2015-10-07T02:06:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [Hospiced cancer patients can and have done scarier things than that.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/28/terminal-cancer-patient-skydives/13259749/) > > Not all of us are so cowardly and terrified by the idea of being in pain that we would rather cease to exist than do something that scares us. > > [He died a few months later.](http://www.startribune.com/obituaries/detail/39409/?fullname=brian-w-nagle) Should he have tapped out sooner? No, derp, of course not. The week before, the day before? If it was his choice, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/156 "2015-10-07T02:11:45Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Speaking 9-11, what about the plane that crashed in Shanksville? Do you think Todd Beamer and his fellow passengers were cowards for fighting and choosing death, instead of thinking, “oh gee, maybe we’ll get out of this alive, even though a bunch of other people might die, if we just sit here and co-operate!” > > No, those guys were fucking heros. Though we will never know precisely what happened in those moments, it is likely that there was no course of action they could have taken at that point that would not have resulted in their bodies disintegrating when they impacted the surface at several hundred miles per hour. Under such circumstances, it is admirable to choose to go out in a way that minimizes the number of other human casualties. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/157 "2015-10-07T02:12:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Today, you declare that people with a few months left to live can choose to kill themselves. > > Five years from now, “a few months” becomes a few years. Right. In other words, this law has no impact on your mortality. All you’ve got here is a paranoid fantasy framed as a “slippery slope” fallacy. It’s just like how people will be marrying their dogs in 10 years’ time now that same-sex marriage is A-OK. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/158 "2015-10-07T02:25:03Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > Right. In other words, this law has no impact on your mortality. > > All you’ve got here is a paranoid fantasy framed as a “slippery slope” fallacy. [Suicide rates in places that legalize euthanasia](http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/jul/18/how-many-people-choose-assisted-suicide-where-it-is-legal) [have increased at greater rates than in places that don’t allow it](http://www.lifenews.com/2015/10/06/study-finds-more-people-kill-themselves-in-suicides-when-assisted-suicide-is-legalized/), [even in non-terminally-ill people.](http://www.lifenews.com/2015/06/08/thanks-to-assisted-suicide-oregons-suicide-rates-are-some-of-the-highest-in-the-nation/) It’s almost as if promoting the idea that killing yourself is the ideal way to deal with personal hardship results in suicide becoming treated as the norm rather than the exception. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/159 "2015-10-07T02:36:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [Suicide rates in places that legalize euthanasia](http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/jul/18/how-many-people-choose-assisted-suicide-where-it-is-legal) Quite shocking that some people, when given an option, choose that option over the alternative, I agree. > [@](#): > > [have increased at greater rates than in places that don’t allow it](http://www.lifenews.com/2015/10/06/study-finds-more-people-kill-themselves-in-suicides-when-assisted-suicide-is-legalized/), [even in non-terminally-ill people.](http://www.lifenews.com/2015/06/08/thanks-to-assisted-suicide-oregons-suicide-rates-are-some-of-the-highest-in-the-nation/) Here’s a more credible report from a less biased source: [Why Oregon's suicide rate is among highest in the country - oregonlive.com](http://www.oregonlive.com/living/index.ssf/2013/05/why_oregons_suicide_rate_is_am.html) All of which is beside the point. Other people choosing to end their lives has no impact on your own mortality. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/160 "2015-10-07T02:42:46Z")
Three things: [ol] [li]I am glad the bill passed.[/li][li]I hate this thread because I think **Smapti** has the most morally repugnant philosophy I have ever heard of or can even imagine. Really.[/li][li]Hugs to {{Maggie}}.[/li][/ol] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669.md?page=9)