# Governor Jerry Brown signs assisted suicide bill. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669 "2015-10-06T00:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/161 "2015-10-07T02:51:33Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > All of which is beside the point. Other people choosing to end their lives has no impact on your own mortality. The value of my life is lessened when the message that suicide is permissible is promulgated and people are encouraged to kill themselves rather than deal with their problems. So is the value of _your_ life, and the lives of everyone you care about. You should be concerned for all of them when they’re being taught that it’s OK to eat a bullet if your life isn’t everything you ever hoped it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/162 "2015-10-07T02:54:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Today, you declare that people with a few months left to live can choose to kill themselves. > > Five years from now, “a few months” becomes a few years. > > Ten years from now, it becomes a valid option the minute you get a terminal diagnosis. > > In 20 years, it’s _expected_ that you’ll choose to die when you’re informed that your prognosis isn’t good. > > In 25, people who don’t want to commit suicide are being publicly chastised for being “selfish” and wasting government healthcare money and their kids’ inheritance. > > In 30, Congress passes legislation ensuring that if people want to insist on living after they’re “supposed” to die, then they have to pay for 100% of their expenses out of pocket. > > In 50, the government just decides when your life isn’t worth living anymore, and administers the suicide drug in your sleep, just like you’d agree to do yourself if you weren’t insane and insisting on being a drain on the economy. You know, the Smapti show really needs new writers. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/163 "2015-10-07T03:05:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The value of my life is lessened when the message that suicide is permissible is promulgated and people are encouraged to kill themselves rather than deal with their problems. > > So is the value of _your_ life, and the lives of everyone you care about. You should be concerned for all of them when they’re being taught that it’s OK to eat a bullet if your life isn’t everything you ever hoped it would be. Here’s the thing: I’m severely disabled. I know that many, many people who are able-bodied believe that, were they suddenly put in my position, they’d be begging for death. I don’t need a voluntary euthanasia bill to confirm this. But you know what? People can think what they like. I’m married, I own a house and I’m working on my Ph.D., so I rate my own life pretty highly. The value of your life is the value you give it–that’s not for anyone else to determine. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/164 "2015-10-07T03:10:17Z")
See, here’s the thing. Smapti, you seem concerned that the government will slide down this slope to the point where other people get to decide whether you live or die. That is actually what assisted suicide measures prevent. Prior to the bill, the government made the call for sick and desperate people. People who live with a nightmare of pain that the medicine doesn’t touch. People who beg for respite, yearning for death. The government said no, your desires don’t matter; you must suffer as long as possible. This is an assisted suicide bill, not a permissible homicide bill. I am not a criminal, i don’t live on death row - the government does not get to determine what my breaking point is. Nor do you. It is my life, and i deserve a say in stopping the pain, If it comes to that. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/165 "2015-10-07T03:11:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, the moral choice is to alleviate their pain and eradicate the cause of their illness. I have forwarded this post to Sweden. Imminently there will be a press release that the Nobel committee has taken the unprecedented step to rescind the recently announced prize for Medicine ('cause fuck roundworm & malaria) because **Smapti** has found the cure for cancers, all cancers. Oh, what’s that? You haven’t? Despite all their efforts, the best doctors & scientists on the planet haven’t either, so put a cork in it. > [@Smapti](#): > > Same thing. It’s only a matter of degree. > > My knees ache. My left foot screams in agony every step I take. My mouth is constantly full of knives in the places where my teeth used to be. My chest and throat are constantly burning. My thighs chafe when I walk. On days when I don’t have to force myself out of bed to go to work, I lie for hours before I can even get up because of how sore I am all over. Nothing makes any of this pain go away and I have no expectation that it will ever get better. If my family history is any indication, I will someday lose my mind and all the memories and experiences I’ve ever had will slowly fade from my grasp until I can’t even remember who I am - if I don’t die of cancer first. > > Should I kill myself? _No._ I value every second of my existence no matter how painful it is. I work through the pain and I choose to endure because I refuse to allow those things to slow me down. > [@Smapti](#): > > I understand pain. I’ve known pain my entire life. Pain doesn’t scare me. > > Seems to me that it’s others here who are so afraid of pain that they’d rather die than experience it. I’m sorry for your pain; however it is obviously bearable & _not caused by a terminal illness._ You do understand there’s a difference, right? Right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/166 "2015-10-07T03:14:22Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I’m sorry for your pain; however it is obviously bearable & _not caused by a terminal illness._ You do understand there’s a difference, right? Right? _For now_. In a few decades, when it’s been decided that people who are sufficiently ill are expected to kill themselves, and those who don’t are being called out on the 2050-equivalent of Facebook for their selfishness? We’ll see. > [@Lobot](#): > > The value of your life is the value you give it–that’s not for anyone else to determine. It is not in our collective interest as a society to allow people to decide that their lives are of less or greater worth than other lives. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/167 "2015-10-07T03:24:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Someone who wouldn’t free slaves at little or no risk to themselves, as you have stated, is in no position whatsoever to call anyone a coward. Based on your posts, you’re the most cowardly poster on the Dope. In addendum to this, what astounds me about **Smapti’s** utterly arrogant and self-righteous opinion is how on earth he can offer it in light of some of the participants in any of these given threads, like **Maggie**. Who could possibly think that highly of themselves? Perhaps it would be different if his views weren’t legendary here, but everyone in the Dopeverse has heard them. So, he’s not even sharing them because he feels it necessary to try and sway someone over to his beliefs. No, he’s only doing this to distort and derail the discussion and shout his “SANCTITY OF LIFE IS TOTAL” superiority at all and sundry. As the wife of a terminally ill husband, I would say his thinking continues to be dangerous and a threat to the agency of anyone who should be able to make their own end of life decisions. But at this point, all I can do is simultaneously laugh and feel pity for him. I’ve read a bit about his upbringing and gather that he can only make sense of out chaos by allowing ‘authority’ to clamp down control. And in this particular instance, order comes via nature and natural law. Anything beyond those bounds upsets his world view and cannot be tolerated. So, yes, I feel sorry for anyone whose life is that lacking and incomplete. Then I’m amused because, just like where homophobes now find themselves, he is on the wrong side of history. He can rail away impotently as often and much as he likes as an anonymous electron on one of thousands of Internet message boards and it doesn’t mean a damn thing. Nor will it ever. Sad really. > [@samclem](#): > > Never stick your dick in the crazy. I’m out of this one. Funniest moderator quote evah! I give this all thumbs up. 😛 > [@Lobot](#): > > Here’s the thing: I’m severely disabled. I know that many, many people who are able-bodied believe that, were they suddenly put in my position, they’d be begging for death. I don’t need a voluntary euthanasia bill to confirm this. > > But you know what? People can think what they like. I’m married, I own a house and I’m working on my Ph.D., so I rate my own life pretty highly. > > The value of your life is the value you give it–that’s not for anyone else to determine. And then this is perfect. **Lobot** , although I’ve seen you around the boards for some time, it wasn’t until your van thread that I knew some of your life. It sounds, despite (I’m sure) the obstacles, one any could hope for; happy, stimulating and fulfilling. Or rather, the exact opposite of **Smapti’s** fearful and unhealthy existence. Sure, he may be crossing things off his bucket list, but giving that much power to anything (the police / a strawman philosophy that will never personally effect him) has to be soul-crushing and terrifying. Again, very sad. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/168 "2015-10-07T03:25:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It is not in our collective interest as a society to allow people to decide that their lives are of less or greater worth than other lives. I said nothing about the value you as an individual place on your life in relation to the lives of others. I cannot determine if my life is more or less valuable than yours, but I most certainly can determine if my life is worth my current level of suffering, especially when the remainder of my life is a matter of weeks at most. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/169 "2015-10-07T03:34:33Z")
Back on topic. My husband has been in an obscene amount of pain in the last five years and I, even as the closest bystander in the world, would be a fool to quantify just how much or bad it truly is. I mean, who can assume they know what anyone else goes through? But this bill heartens me. Although we live in Texas and I doubt he’d be alive long enough to benefit from it anyway, I’m pleased others will be able to escape the unending agony of the daily grind of life with [whatever]. If he had the choice, he’d certainly take it and I’d 100%, no matter the difficulty, support his right to do so. Because only a sanctimonious, self-important, inhuman void would do otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/170 "2015-10-07T03:35:51Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Then I’m amused because, just like where homophobes now find themselves, he is on the wrong side of history. Right. And it’s no accident that the arguments that it devalues all life and leads to a slippery slope mirror the anti-same sex marriage arguments so closely. It’s very much the same style of thinking, driven by fear and zero-sum thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/171 "2015-10-07T03:42:24Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > I cannot determine if my life is more or less valuable than yours, but I most certainly can determine if my life is worth my current level of suffering, especially when the remainder of my life is a matter of weeks at most. You can not and you should not, because any such decision affects millions of other lives in a way that you as an individual do not have the right to do. Your life is worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/172 "2015-10-07T03:45:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You can not and you should not, because any such decision affects millions of other lives in a way that you as an individual do not have the right to do. How? HOW??? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/173 "2015-10-07T03:46:37Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > How? HOW??? Asked and answered above. Cheapening your own life strengthens a paradigm where a life of pain or illness is deemed by society as not worth living. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/174 "2015-10-07T03:47:30Z")
I’m sorry for the pain that Lobot, Maggie, faithfool’s husband and any others in this thread must deal with on a daily basis. I know it’s the Pit- can i still offer hugs and encouraging energy? And i am astonished that Smapti can look at real suffering and say “oh i know pain - my knees hurt. Anyone who doesn’t deal like i do is a coward.” I have held the hands of individuals who suffered unrelenting pain for months, and they were no cowards. Their lives lost no value if they chose their own moments of exit, or if they allowed the disease to run its course. I have seen both. Their lives mattered, and i treasure having known them. Fuck anyone who wants to disparage the people i love and remember. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/175 "2015-10-07T03:53:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Asked and answered above. Cheapening your own life strengthens a paradigm where a life of pain or illness is deemed by society as not worth living. That paradigm already exists. Ask a random sample of people if they’d rather continue living if tomorrow an accident were to make them a quadriplegic. Funnily enough, once people are actually in that situation, a lot of them just carry on as best they can. Living out a scenario is different to debating it in the abstract. (That last point may be something worth considering.) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/176 "2015-10-07T03:53:24Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > And i am astonished that Smapti can look at real suffering and say “oh i know pain - my knees hurt. Anyone who doesn’t deal like i do is a coward.” And I’m astonished that you can claim to empathize with those who live their lives in pain, and at the same time mock me for saying that I live my life in pain. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/177 "2015-10-07T03:56:16Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I’m sorry for the pain that Lobot, Maggie, faithfool’s husband and any others in this thread must deal with on a daily basis. I know it’s the Pit- can i still offer hugs and encouraging energy? > > And i am astonished that Smapti can look at real suffering and say “oh i know pain - my knees hurt. Anyone who doesn’t deal like i do is a coward.” I have held the hands of individuals who suffered unrelenting pain for months, and they were no cowards. Their lives lost no value if they chose their own moments of exit, or if they allowed the disease to run its course. I have seen both. Their lives mattered, and i treasure having known them. > > Fuck anyone who wants to disparage the people i love and remember. Thank you, **raventhief**. Right now, he can hardly breath just enough for me to assist him while he goes to the bathroom. That’s real pain. Not “pain” that’s ‘good enough to go skydiving’ pain. This is what it’s like to decide if it’s urgent enough to wake up the spouse versus a full bladder pain. So, the real sufferers know what they’d choose and the severity and why. The pretenders t the throne? They pretend they know what in the hell they’re talking about and project their infantile delusions on to the rest of the adult world. ETA: Dammit, I hit submit too soon. I’m also sorry for what you’ve seen and loss. It does do something to a person. Idealism aside; once you’ve been there and it’s no longer a hypothetical in your philosophy 101 course, things grow exponentially. I’m so sorry any of us has to really know or understand this. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/178 "2015-10-07T03:56:40Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > That paradigm already exists. Do you consider that a good thing? I don’t. > [@](#): > > Ask a random sample of people if they’d rather continue living if tomorrow an accident were to make them a quadriplegic. I can’t speak for a random sample of people. I can only speak for myself. I would absolutely continue living as a quadriplegic. My life would certainly be very different than it is now, but I would manage, because the only alternative to managing is not worthy of contemplation by any rational human being. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/179 "2015-10-07T04:02:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Do you consider that a good thing? I don’t. I don’t consider it a good thing, because I don’t think anyone standing outside a lived experience can adequately judge the quality of life that goes along with it. Yet that’s exactly the position you’re taking. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669/180 "2015-10-07T04:03:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And I’m astonished that you can claim to empathize with those who live their lives in pain, and at the same time mock me for saying that I live my life in pain. Look, i have pain too. It’s always there. But I can still function. If you can function, YOUR PAIN IS NOTHING LIKE A PATIENT DEALING WITH THE FINAL STAGES OF A TERMINAL ILLNESS. I have sat by the bedside of a woman on the highest amounts of pain killer available, and she never got a moment’s peace. She wept in her sleep. She could not get out of bed. She couldn’t eat. She held on to the last moment, and my heart broke for her with every breath she fought to take. I loved her and her suffering was soul shattering. If it were legal i would have spared her some of that pain when she begged to die. Your pain - and mine - is not a shadow on that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-jerry-brown-signs-assisted-suicide-bill/733669.md?page=10)