# Governor Scott Walker just sealed his own fate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 24, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417 "2011-02-24T03:21:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/81 "2011-02-27T02:28:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is all complete crap, of course. Of course it isn’t. Are you denying that the teacher’s union in this state hasn’t been heavy handed in the way they lobbied for certain politicians and for the passage of certain laws? Or lack of passing? The pressure they put on fellow teachers who may disagree with the popular union political views and _even students_ to tow the line is sometimes disgraceful. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/82 "2011-02-27T02:36:10Z")
> **[Buying Wisconsin Politicians Pt.2: $7 million+ lobbyist spending by WI...](https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2680622/posts)** > [@](#): > > “WEAC PAC Spending - Consistently #1 in all elections - far surpassing all other PACs combined ($11,449,803 since 2000 - All on Democrat candidates.).” From the link, which is clearly biased, but it will support my assertions with some data. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/83 "2011-02-27T02:54:31Z")
For those of you who don’t understand why Scott Walker was elected to fix this mess, here are a couple more links to help clear the waters. > **[Robert M. Costrell: Oh, To Be a Teacher in Wisconsin](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703408604576164290717724956)** > > In The Wall Street Journal, Robert M. Costrell asks how can fringe benefits cost nearly as much as a worker's salary? Answer: collective bargaining. > **[Wisconsin: An Education in Special Interest Power](https://www.dailysignal.com/2011/02/26/wisconsin-an-education-in-special-interest-power/)** > > Early yesterday morning, the Wisconsin assembly passed Governor Scott Walker’s (R) budget repair bill, which includes language requiring public employees to contribute 5.8 percent of... Read More Dems taunting the pubs that voted in the assembly. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5f0VProvuAo/maxresdefault.jpg "Assembly Dems Yell "Shame" After Budget Vote") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0VProvuAo) ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/84 "2011-02-27T03:10:57Z")
K, last one for now. [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-union-20110217,0,7977108.story](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-union-20110217,0,7977108.story) Some common sense from a conservative viewpoint. **Dio** , I’d like your honest opinion on this topic after you’ve had a chance to get caught up. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/85 "2011-02-27T03:53:05Z")
I’m not so sure why people get thier panties in knots when groups of middle class workers have a powerful presence in legislative bodies. Industries, corporations, and wealthy individuals do-- these groups push for legislation that will benefit them all the time-- so why is it that the right wing demonizes worker organizations when they lobby for things that will benefit \*their \*members? There’s nothing wrong or unethical or undemocratic about it. In fact 10,000 people lobbying for something seems much more democratic than 1 person with $5,000,000 doing the same. Just because these people don’t have billions in the bank, or own multi-national corporations, doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to put massive amounts of pressure on the people passing laws that will directly affect them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/86 "2011-02-27T03:56:22Z")
Scott Walker was not elected to bust any unions. The budget has nothing to do with this conflict. Walker never campaigned on busting the unions and was not elected to do any such thing. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/87 "2011-02-27T04:04:18Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I’m not so sure why people get thier panties in knots when groups of middle class workers have a powerful presence in legislative bodies. Industries, corporations, and wealthy individuals do-- these groups push for legislation that will benefit them all the time-- so why is it that the right wing demonizes worker organizations when they lobby for things that will benefit \*their \*members? There’s nothing wrong or unethical or undemocratic about it. In fact 10,000 people lobbying for something seems much more democratic than 1 person with $5,000,000 doing the same. > > Just because these people don’t have billions in the bank, or own multi-national corporations, doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to put massive amounts of pressure on the people passing laws that will directly affect them. Because the duty of the elected officials is to do what’s in the best interest of the State, which is often what the people voting for them also have in mind. In this case, and in many other States, the State Labor Unions don’t care what’s in the best interest of the State, putting the two groups at odds. The State, being the Unions Workers (for lack of a better word) boss, has decided to finally act like their boss, not their equals. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/88 "2011-02-27T04:09:26Z")
The public unions in Wisconsin had already been quite willing to take pay cuts and pay more for medical insurance and pensions, so you’re wrong. They are nothing but willing to sacrifice for the good of the state (even though they had nothing to do with the problem). They just aren’t going to give up their collective bargaining rights, nor should they. I also think it’s weird that so many right wingers seem to view just compensation as some kind of largesse or gift. Why should people not be justly compensated for their labor? explain that to me. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/89 "2011-02-27T04:36:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I also think it’s weird that so many right wingers seem to view just compensation as some kind of largesse or gift. Why should people not be justly compensated for their labor? explain that to me. If you haven’t figured out yet that, to a conservative, wealth is virtue, you’re way behind. If someone is a billionaire, then obviously nature has endowed that person with intelligence, wisdom and holiness well beyond a poor person, so it’s imperative that we all bow down to their wants and needs. See? ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/90 "2011-02-27T04:44:25Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > Because the duty of the elected officials is to do what’s in the best interest of the State, which is often what the people voting for them also have in mind. So I guess we will hear no more complaints from conservatives when democratically elected governments decided to nationalize banks, airlines and other companies. And since when is the best interest of the **State** ever been of importance to American conservatives? I thought individual liberty was paramount (unless, of course, it goes against God’s will). No, the duty of elected officials is to do what’s best for their constituents. And it is nice to see the lie about supporting free markets and fiscal conservatism exposed. Free markets only exist when both sides have equal negotiating power. And fiscal conservatives have no business lowering taxes during a budget crisis or authorizing no-bid contracts. I have no idea what Walker believes in, but I am damn certain sure of what he does not. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/91 "2011-02-27T05:28:40Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > If you haven’t figured out yet that, to a conservative, wealth is virtue, you’re way behind. If someone is a billionaire, then obviously nature has endowed that person with intelligence, wisdom and holiness well beyond a poor person, so it’s imperative that we all bow down to their wants and needs. See? Har, har. If you’d care to read the links I posted above you’ll see that State workers are compensated far and above the national average for comparable work. Especially and mostly in their benefits. No one is trying to say they don’t deserve to be _fairly_ compensated. What they have isn’t fair and the State can’t afford it anymore. Walker isn’t trying to bust the unions. That may be a future side effect, but it isn’t his goal. What he is doing now is exactly what he ran on. He won the election handily and the entire State flipped from left to right. This is what the people of this State want! It was decided during the election. What is happening in the capital right now is NOT the democratic way of handling the issues. That already took place, let the assembly and the State senate vote the way they were elected to vote and let the governor run the state according to the wishes of the popular vote. This isn’t a bait and switch that we have here, there is no reason to panic. The elections are over and promises are being kept. Move on. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/92 "2011-02-27T05:42:08Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@Agnostic\_Pagan](#): > > > > So I guess we will hear no more complaints from conservatives when democratically elected governments decided to nationalize banks, airlines and other companies. > > complaining is one thing, refusing to show up for work (teachers) and fleeing the State (State senators) is something I have not seen in a conservative play book. > > > [@](#): > > > > And since when is the best interest of the **State** ever been of importance to American conservatives? I thought individual liberty was paramount (unless, of course, it goes against God’s will). No, the duty of elected officials is to do what’s best for their constituents. > > By State, I mean the future of Wisconsin and its taxpayers, not an ambiguous entity or idea. Ironically, individual liberties are not something a union has an interest in. > > > [@](#): > > > > And it is nice to see the lie about supporting free markets and fiscal conservatism exposed. Free markets only exist when both sides have equal negotiating power. And fiscal conservatives have no business lowering taxes during a budget crisis or authorizing no-bid contracts. > > A free market, as you refer to the State vs Union workers, will never exist if the the ebb and flow of natural politics is not allowed play itself out. The flow right now is to the right and fighting it will only worsen our State’s financial problems and push them down the road for someone else to deal with. > > > [@](#): > > > > I have no idea what Walker believes in, but I am damn certain sure of what he does not. You have no idea. If you think these waters are rough, wait until the REAL meat of his budget cuts arrive. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/93 "2011-02-27T05:46:08Z")
I’m really thinking all the highly offended authoritarians are going to be very surprised by the way this ends. You. Are. Not. Winning. This. Especially in Wisconsin, where progressivism BEGAN! ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/94 "2011-02-27T05:48:52Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > Har, har. If you’d care to read the links I posted above you’ll see that State workers are compensated far and above the national average for comparable work. Especially and mostly in their benefits. No one is trying to say they don’t deserve to be _fairly_ compensated. What they have isn’t fair and the State can’t afford it anymore. Another conservative untruth. > **[The Wisconsin Lie Exposed - Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/)** > > Pulitzer Prize winning tax reporter, David Cay Johnston, has written a brilliant piece for tax.com exposing the truth about who really pays for the pension and benefits for public employees in Wisconsin. Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers... ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/95 "2011-02-27T05:56:10Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > Kinda like unions? They have nominations. they have voting. They are a shining example of Democracy. They work for the good of all members. Yes a shining example. ---
**Author:** ![Assi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@Assi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Assi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/96 "2011-02-27T06:03:45Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > They have nominations. they have voting. They are a shining example of Democracy. They work for the good of all members. Yes a shining example. They have a significant amount of members forced to join, and made to pay into political campaigns they don’t support. What would you call that a shining example of? I’d call it a polished turd. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/97 "2011-02-27T06:08:32Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > Another conservative untruth. > > [The Wisconsin Lie Exposed - Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions](http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/) It doesn’t matter how or when they get paid, it all comes from the taxpayer in the end. If you decide to pay them 100k per year and let them invest it or pay them 60k in salary and 40k in some type of deferred annuity. Their pension isn’t the only problem here, it’s the entirety of their benefit package which also includes medical. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/98 "2011-02-27T06:15:09Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > They have nominations. they have voting. They are a shining example of Democracy. They work for the good of all members. Yes a shining example. He said sarcastically.😉 I don’t agree. Unions tend to equalize the talents of everyone and no one can stand above the rest. Often, the best and the worst workers get the same benefits, pay and representation. I’d rather earn those things, not have them handed to me just cause I pay dues. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/99 "2011-02-27T06:20:55Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > He said sarcastically.😉 > > I don’t agree. Unions tend to equalize the talents of everyone and no one can stand above the rest. Often, the best and the worst workers get the same benefits, pay and representation. I’d rather earn those things, not have them handed to me just cause I pay dues. Not at all. Any union has a training program. it has different job descriptions with differing pay rates. They have seniority and pay scales that go along with it. You have no understanding of unions. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417/100 "2011-02-27T06:21:29Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > It doesn’t matter how or when they get paid, it all comes from the taxpayer in the end. If you decide to pay them 100k per year and let them invest it or pay them 60k in salary and 40k in some type of deferred annuity. Their pension isn’t the only problem here, it’s the entirety of their benefit package which also includes medical. An employee paying into a benefit costs the employer how? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/governor-scott-walker-just-sealed-his-own-fate/572417.md?page=6)