# Govt. cuts in heating assistance **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268 "2011-11-08T14:03:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![silvermist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@silvermist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silvermist)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/1 "2011-11-08T14:03:43Z")
Obama has cut the amount of assistance for heat for the poor by 60% at a time when so many are unemployed. I think it’s time to reorder priorities. The people who live in a country should be the number one concern. Cuts should be made to govt. grants to study the tse tse fly, etc. rather than let the poor elderly, disabled and families go cold and hungry. If the White House had to be cold in proportion to how the poor live, I think govt. people would naturally change things around. Let the Congress and the President’s food, heat and medical care be cut like the poor and show them exactly how it feels to the poor. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/2 "2011-11-08T14:26:36Z")
I’m not sure its really worth it to get worked up about the Presidents budget proposal one way or the other, since Congress just ignores them anyways, even when the Presidents party controls the House. I’m don’t know why various White Houses bother. But in anycase, [last years LIHEAP funding](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/09/obama-poor-energy-cuts-kerry-letter_n_821061.html) apparently included money allocated as part of the Stimulus for weatherization, and a bump that was approved to help poor families cope with the weird spike in oil prices at the beginning of the Great Recession. The current proposal is to return it to where it was in 2007. Which isn’t to say I wouldn’t like to see the funding remain high, as I think its a good program, and because I don’t think the gov’t should cut programs helping the poor while unemployment remains high and wages depressed. But the rational behind lowering it is pretty straight forward. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/3 "2011-11-08T16:00:10Z")
Moving from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/4 "2011-11-08T16:49:42Z")
> [@silvermist](#): > > Obama has cut the amount of assistance for heat for the poor by 60% at a time when so many are unemployed. I think it’s time to reorder priorities. The people who live in a country should be the number one concern. Cuts should be made to govt. grants to study the tse tse fly, etc. rather than let the poor elderly, disabled and families go cold and hungry. Assuming that the tse tse fly study was hyperbole, what specific programs or grants would you cut to provide the money needed to restore the program? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/5 "2011-11-08T17:12:50Z")
Certain groups would rather people freeze to death, than to raise revenues to help strangers that need assistance. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/6 "2011-11-08T17:16:56Z")
Pretty much all foreign aid serves US interests- either through improving US security or creating market conditions and trade agreements that are favorable to us. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/7 "2011-11-08T17:42:02Z")
> [@silvermist](#): > > The people who live in a country should be the number one concern. What do you think Congress/the President’s number one concern _is_? US domestic spending is measured in the trillions. Foreign aid is a relative drop in the bucket at ~$300 billion. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/8 "2011-11-08T17:47:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What do you think Congress/the President’s number one concern _is_? US domestic spending is measured in the trillions. Foreign aid is a relative drop in the bucket at ~$300 billion. Closer to [50 billion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_foreign_aid) And a lot of that goes to places like Iraq and Afghanistan that were recently occupied by the US. And as **even sven** notes, a lot of it is also just a convoluted method of subsidizing domestic US industries. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/9 "2011-11-08T17:49:21Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Closer to [50 billion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_foreign_aid) And a lot of that goes to places like Iraq and Afghanistan that were recently occupied by the US. And as **even sven** notes, a lot of it is also just a convoluted method of subsidizing domestic US industries. Whoops, typo. That was supposed to say $30 billion (seems silly to count military assistance). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/10 "2011-11-08T18:08:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Assuming that the tse tse fly study was hyperbole, what specific programs or grants would you cut to provide the money needed to restore the program? $140 million from the National Endowment for the Arts. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/11 "2011-11-08T18:46:25Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Certain groups would rather people freeze to death, than to raise revenues to help strangers that need assistance. Obama is a group? And exactly how many people will “freeze to death” if the cuts are made? > [@Bricker](#): > > $140 million from the National Endowment for the Arts. That’s a good start. Where does the rest of the $2.86B come from. My suggestion, if we are going to do this, is from Defense. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/12 "2011-11-08T18:51:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > $140 million from the National Endowment for the Arts. A drop in the bucket. Got anything bigger? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/13 "2011-11-08T19:08:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Obama is a group? And exactly how many people will “freeze to death” if the cuts are made? > That’s a good start. Where does the rest of the $2.86B come from. I feel like Kevin Kline’s character in “Dave.” $400 million for killing the [USDA’s milk market pricing program (PDF warning.)](http://www.idfa.org/files/documents/fmmo_nutrition_programs_102011rev.pdf) Actually, forget the small fry stuff: the HHS IG says that there’s about $60 billion in Medicare fraud. Maybe we could step up fraud enforcement efforts and save 5% of that? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/14 "2011-11-08T19:30:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, forget the small fry stuff: the HHS IG says that there’s about $60 billion in Medicare fraud. Maybe we could step up fraud enforcement efforts and save 5% of that? Now _that’s_ a good one, although that is an increase in spending initially, rather than an actual cut. Is there a reliable estimate as to what it would cost to step up those efforts to the point where that $3 billion can be saved? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/15 "2011-11-08T20:05:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Obama is a group? And exactly how many people will “freeze to death” if the cuts are made? The Republicans are the ones who are so resistant to increasing revenue. Cutting taxes is good. Giving money to millionaires and billionaire corporations is a good thing. But gods forbid any money be spent helping citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/16 "2011-11-08T23:28:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I feel like Kevin Kline’s character in “Dave.” Well, he was well-intentioned, but unqualified and under-informed for the role in which he found himself. So … maybe, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/17 "2011-11-08T23:46:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The Republicans are the ones who are so resistant to increasing revenue. Cutting taxes is good. Giving money to millionaires and billionaire corporations is a good thing. But gods forbid any money be spent helping citizens. Obama is proposing the cut. Are you going to answer the question about people “freezing to death”, or was that just a throw-away line appealing to emotion? **Bricker** : Everyone always says they are going to eliminate fraud, but nobody ever does it. Can we find $3B in defense to cut for this? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/govt-cuts-in-heating-assistance/602268/18 "2011-11-09T00:40:06Z")
[The IRS doesn’t collect ~$300 billion in taxes a year](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/11/irs-funding-cuts-congress_n_847741.html). Give them more enforcement money.