# GPS solves a crime, but the "big fish" drug traffickers may escape in Central America **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gps-solves-a-crime-but-the-big-fish-drug-traffickers-may-escape-in-central-america/393450 "2007-02-23T23:43:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gps-solves-a-crime-but-the-big-fish-drug-traffickers-may-escape-in-central-america/393450/1 "2007-02-23T23:43:33Z")
This is not a subject many dopers are aware, but since the war of drugs (no pun intended) continues in all of the Americas, I wanted to get your impressions and comments, there is also a curious technology angle in all this: To begin, some background: [http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-02-20-voa20.cfm](http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-02-20-voa20.cfm) > [@](#): > > Three Salvadoran Representatives Slain in Guatemala > By VOA News > 20 February 2007 > > Officials in Guatemala say three Salvadoran representatives to the Central American Parliament have been killed, and their bodies burned along with their driver. > > … > > Interior Minister Carlos Vielman says the dead include Eduardo D’Aubuisson, the son of Roberto D’Aubuisson. > > The elder D’Aubuisson founded El Salvador’s ruling party, the right-wing Nationalist Republican Alliance ( **Arena** ), and was alleged to have been involved in the killing of Archbishop Oscar Arnulfo Romero in 1980. Bold part added. First the technology angle: Was this the first time ever the Global Positioning System helped capture criminals in a mayor incident? [http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c\_id=49&objectid=10425495](http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=49&objectid=10425495) > [@](#): > > GUATEMALA - Four Guatemalan policemen were arrested yesterday in the murder of three Salvadoran politicians after being linked to the crime by a global positioning system in their vehicle, the Government said. > > Luis Herrera, head of a special police unit charged with investigating organized crime, was captured after the GPS receiver in his police truck revealed he had been at the scene of the kidnapping and the site where the bodies were found, authorities said. > > Herrera, Jose Adolfo Gutierrez and two others from the unit, were filmed by traffic cameras as they intercepted a car carrying the three members of the Guatemala-based Central American regional parliament and their driver. > > The detained policemen “obviously” did not know the GPS was in their vehicle when they carried out the killings, police chief Erwin Sperisen said. Second, the political angle: Now the plot thickens. Of course the reactionary press in El Salvador can not let go of the possibility that the left in El Salvador was involved by reporting the “supposition” that one policeman got a call from El Salvador (no evidence was presented when the official told that to the press or who did the call, but never mind). However, another group of investigators in Guatemala pointed to evidence that the original car the representatives were traveling had “a cargo worth 5 million dollars”. It is not clear if the killers found the drugs or money they came from and then they killed the witnesses, or the politicians were killed because the corrupt cops found nothing. > **[Libro cuenta cómo triunfaron los diseñadores más importantes](https://www.prensalibre.com/vida/moda-y-estilo/23-agosto-2010-por-analee-no-hay-comentarios-compartir-libro-creadores-de-moda-asi-triunfaron-los-disenadores-mas-importantes-0-329367179/)** > > La web Solo Moda nos presenta el libre Creadores de moda (Océano), en el cual se desvelan los secretos para ser alguien en el diseño, la industria o las tendencias. (spanish) The question then remains: what was that alleged cargo doing there? This was supposed to be only a trip for Arena politicians to take part on unification talks of Central America. All this points to the the strong possibility that because official cars are not inspected at the border that then smuggling money or drugs took place, and instead of being a political crime (as it was implied recently by the right wing Arena leadership) that then this points to a fight for the control of drug routes, with people in high levels involved. This could become a huge scandal in Guatemala and in El Salvador. For the USA crowd: The FBI was invited to help investigate, but it seems pressure managed to get the Guatemalans to ignore whatever untouchable status the authorities had in Guatemala, (reported to be one of the most corrupt in the Americas) but that is IMO the “easy” part. Since the drug rings affect the US, could the United States offer more help or pressure when the investigation continues to seek the big fish that organized that crime (and possibly another: the presence of smuggling rings in high political places) even if the current status quo in Guatemala and in EL Salvador is affected? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gps-solves-a-crime-but-the-big-fish-drug-traffickers-may-escape-in-central-america/393450/2 "2007-02-26T22:25:28Z")
Well, that did not take long: [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/26/world/americas/26salvador.html?ref=americas](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/26/world/americas/26salvador.html?ref=americas) > [@](#): > > Guatemalans Tied to Killings Are Slain > Sign In to E-Mail or Save This Print Reprints Share > DiggFacebookNewsvinePermalink > > By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS > Published: February 26, 2007 > CUILAPA, Guatemala, Feb. 25 (AP) — Four imprisoned Guatemalan policemen were killed Sunday during a rebellion by inmates, days after the officers were arrested in connection with the deaths of three Salvadoran politicians, the police said. The warden and other prison officials were being held hostage. > > Riot police gathered outside the jail in Cuilapa, about 40 miles east of Guatemala City. > > “It’s confirmed; they killed the four of them,” said a national police spokeswoman, Maria José Fernández. The four killed included Luís Arturo Herrera, head of the Guatemalan National Police organized crime unit, and three of his officers. :dubious: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted _in_ **Casablanca (1942)** > _Louis: We haven’t quite decided yet whether he committed suicide or died trying to escape_ Problem is that the local press just reported that it was a unit of the Guatemalan forces that did go in to [del]silence[/del] kill the accused 4: [http://www.laprensagrafica.com//nacion/724847.asp](http://www.laprensagrafica.com//nacion/724847.asp) > [@](#): > > Testigos aseguran que un comando armado ingresó al penal a la hora de la visita y ejecutó a los policías. Las autoridades guatemaltecas guardan hermetismo. Translated: “Witnesses affirm that a commanded armed group entered the prison at visiting hours and executed the policemen. The Guatemalan authorities are keeping a lid on all information” As I saw in the Salvadorian blogs, virtually all posters see this as the drug lords of Central America telling the local governments that they are in control. I’m afraid that for the USA, it means that Central America will become an even bigger drug transfer point. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gps-solves-a-crime-but-the-big-fish-drug-traffickers-may-escape-in-central-america/393450/3 "2007-02-27T08:53:14Z")
Astonishing they managed to get through eight sets of doors to get at those guys. One of the 21/7 London suicide bombers (the ones whose bombs did not go off) did a runner to Italy by train. It was reported that he changed the SIMM in his mobile, but they watched his progress across France etc. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gps-solves-a-crime-but-the-big-fish-drug-traffickers-may-escape-in-central-america/393450/4 "2007-03-04T00:13:55Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] Astonishing they managed to get through eight sets of doors to get at those guys. [/QUOTE] Oh they have tried to assign blame to a riot in the jail, but seeing reports were the energy was cut before the killings in the jail shows that the killers came from the outside or got help. Authorities have tried still to blame the prisoners for the killings, but now that seems more unlikely because outside the jails whoever is silencing the witnesses is still at it: > **[Homepage](https://rsf.org/en)** > > Reporters sans frontières assure la promotion et la défense de la liberté d'informer et d'être informé partout dans le monde. L'organisation, basée à Paris, compte des bureaux à l'international (Berlin, Bruxelles, Genève, Madrid, Stockholm, Tripoli,... > [@](#): > > Reporters Without Borders voiced its support today for the staff of the TV station Cable Guatevisión, who have been receiving death threats since 25 February after broadcasting a report about the murder of four detained police officers inside a prison. The organisation fears criminal infiltration of the police. > > … > > Four policemen aged 28 to 39 were arrested on 21 February on suspicion of murdering the Salvadorean legislators and were placed in the El Boquerón top-security prison east of the capital, where they were shot dead four days later. Witnesses said they were executed by a group of hooded gunmen who penetrated the prison but the interior ministry said they were killed in the course of a prison mutiny. President Oscar Berger has had to publicly acknowledge the existence of corruption, drug trafficking and another abuses within the security forces. > > Cable Guatevisión news director Haroldo Sánchez said the journalists who produced his station’s report on the murder of the four policemen were themselves filmed and photographed by the security forces. He said the station has been getting “email messages warning that we will be killed” since 25 February. He has personally been warned “not to cover this case any more,” he added. Not confirmed in the foreign press, but what I see in the local press and blogs is worrisome: a fifth policeman that was involved in the original killings gave up and is now under custody (I really think the FBI should keep an eye on him or he needs to be moved out of Guatemala), no one is sure if he did surrender before or after he noticed what happened to the sixth one. The sixth policeman accused apparently was found burned to a crisp yesterday (if this were a novel the readers would be now tossing the novel in disgust and with incredulity) No one believes now this was just a mistaken identity robbery and murder, drug lords are taking over in Guatemala at least, and IIRC George W. Bush is going to visit the place soon, any change on plans when the local authorities are showing their security to be incapable or corrupt at the high levels? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gps-solves-a-crime-but-the-big-fish-drug-traffickers-may-escape-in-central-america/393450/5 "2007-03-04T11:12:07Z")
What we basically have is a couple of failed states. I wonder when the probem will become serious enough for the US to make an overt invasion. The chances are that the taint from the corruption make itself felt in US politics, law enforcement and the judiciary. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gps-solves-a-crime-but-the-big-fish-drug-traffickers-may-escape-in-central-america/393450/6 "2007-03-04T17:06:18Z")
[QUOTE=casdave] What we basically have is a couple of failed states. I wonder when the probem will become serious enough for the US to make an overt invasion. [/quote] Well, now I think this is being harsh, I would not call them failed states when the opposition has still access to the election ballot and they are not being hunted down as it was before (Although it is true that several suspicious recent cases of kidnappings and murders of opposition members have occurred), but I do think the longer a situation like the current one goes without decisive action that then they could indeed fall into a failed state situation. > [@](#): > > The chances are that the taint from the corruption make itself felt in US politics, law enforcement and the judiciary. And here is why I have the feeling the current Bush administration will show to be next to useless. Not because I think they are corrupt in the drug sense, but because the Bush administration IMO will not put much pressure to a Central American administration that is friendly to the US in other convenient areas. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gps-solves-a-crime-but-the-big-fish-drug-traffickers-may-escape-in-central-america/393450/7 "2007-03-04T18:54:32Z")
> [@](#): > > And here is why I have the feeling the current Bush administration will show to be next to useless. Not because I think they are corrupt in the drug sense, but because the Bush administration IMO will not put much pressure to a Central American administration that is friendly to the US in other convenient areas. So in fact US politics has become corrupted, as it is prepared to not apply pressure for its own purposes. The CA governments know this, and will give the US just what it wants, in order to continue exporting drugs. It does not help that the product is so profitable for a very small number of individuals that there is little or no incentive to develop an economy that can fulfil the aspriations of the inhabitants, so in that sense, these are already failed states, as elections are hardly going to change anything. The CA nations appear to have an electorate that limits the power of the state, reality is very differant, fundamentalist groups already feed on the discontent, by fundamentalist I don’t mean in the sense of religious, although lets face it, some of these groups do appear to lean in that direction, although the fact they also are involved in the drugs trade makes this an…interesting combination. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gps-solves-a-crime-but-the-big-fish-drug-traffickers-may-escape-in-central-america/393450/8 "2007-03-04T23:24:30Z")
I virtually agree with everything you say, but the “failed state” nitpick remains (and this is the SD after all, one has to be precise). To be considered a failed state one has to check several indicators:: [http://www.fundforpeace.org/programs/fsi/fsindex2006.php](http://www.fundforpeace.org/programs/fsi/fsindex2006.php) > [@](#): > > The Twelve Indicators: > 1 - Mounting Demographic Pressures > 2 - Massive Movement of Refugees and IDPs > 3 - Legacy of Vengeance - Seeking Group Grievance > 4 - Chronic and Sustained Human Flight > 5 - Uneven Economic Development along Group Lines > 6 - Sharp and/or Severe Economic Decline > 7 - Criminalization or Delegitimization of the State > 8 - Progressive Deterioration of Public Services > 9 - Widespread Violation of Human Rights > 10 - Security Apparatus as “State within a State” > 11 - Rise of Factionalized Elites > 12 - Intervention of Other States or External Actors In the report of 2006, the 10 worst failed states are: > [@](#): > > 1 - Sudan > 2 - DR of Congo. > 3 - Cote d’Ivoire (Ivory Coast) > 4 - Iraq > 5 - Zimbabwe > 6 - Chad > 7 - Somalia > 8 - Haiti > 9 - Pakistan > 10 - Afghanistan After more than 4 years of efforts, seeing Iraq and Afghanistan in the top ten is a shameful thing for the USA IMHO. Guatemala (#51) is considered a country in danger of getting into the failed state area and El Salvador is also not too far behind. But I think next year the status could change for the worse making you to be more correct regarding the “failed state” score. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gps-solves-a-crime-but-the-big-fish-drug-traffickers-may-escape-in-central-america/393450/9 "2007-03-05T22:07:08Z")
You have to admit, these nations certainly are well along the road to fulfilling quite a few of those requirements. 5 through to 9 and add in 12 for good measure. They are making a damned fine effort on these. In fact they are making progress on almost all the points though obviously not anything like as far as the likes of Somalia. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gps-solves-a-crime-but-the-big-fish-drug-traffickers-may-escape-in-central-america/393450/10 "2007-03-06T13:37:21Z")
A few senior policemen or Army generals indulging in the riches of dealing in coke, do not exactly make a failed state. I can think of one outfit that made it quite a nice little earner, yet the USA survives. Probably in the 1920s half the Canadian government was getting paid off by Seagrams.