# GQ: American pizza is better than Italian **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168 "2009-06-09T00:46:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168/41 "2009-06-09T22:04:28Z")
> [@](#): > > I think once you cross the Rockies going west, things go to heck faily quickly. With scattered exceptions, of course. There’s a really good place here in Bozeman called Mackenzie River, that serves an excellent pizza. I don’t know enough about the fine points of pizza crust to say what sort it is; it just seemed like “normal pizza crust” to me (though very well-executed). ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168/42 "2009-06-09T22:31:49Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I admit that I didn’t read the article, only the quotation in the OP. But…if the author is only choosing Neapolitan-style pizzas in the US, which aren’t all that popular here, how can America possibly care more about it than Italy, where these style of pizzas are ubiquitous? I don’t entirely agree. New Haven-style pizza, which is a pretty popular style, is pretty similar to Neapolitan pizza. Edit: on preview I see that others beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168/43 "2009-06-09T22:58:13Z")
I lived in NYC for 8 years. I traveled to Italy once, for 12 days. Most likely it was due to my own fault of not seeking out the right restaurants, but IMO the Italian food in NYC (including pizza) was _much_ better than what I ate in Italy. Now, I’m certain there are places all over Italy with amazing food, but I didn’t find many. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168/44 "2009-06-09T23:15:02Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Original Italian pizza from Naples can be eaten with your hands. The stuff that has popped up all over the rest of Italy (after American tourists kept asking about it on their vacations) is cracker thin and not sliced. > > Neapolitan pizza looks like [this](http://www.alifewortheating.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/sorbillo-esterina-1.JPG). Hmmm, maybe there is a difference between proper Neapolitan pizza and what is commonly eaten all over Italy. At any rate it certainly isn’t American tourists who are demanding cracker-thin crusts and knife-and-fork pizzas. I think a fact-finding mission is in order! ---
**Author:** ![Leiko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Leiko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leiko)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168/45 "2009-06-10T00:36:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > With scattered exceptions, of course. There’s a really good place here in Bozeman called Mackenzie River, that serves an excellent pizza. I don’t know enough about the fine points of pizza crust to say what sort it is; it just seemed like “normal pizza crust” to me (though very well-executed). It’s actually a small chain- there’s one in Missoula and I think one in Kalispell, if not more. I just graduated from UM, and visited Bozeman several times, but somehow never managed to eat at a Mackenzie River. Hopefully when I get back to Montana I’ll get to eat at one. Any specific recommendations? I agree on the scattered exceptions west of the Rockies: There used to be absolutely amazing “gourmet” pizza in Olympia at a place called Jo Mamma’s. We went several times when I was a little kid, and I adored their artichoke heart, roasted garlic, and goat cheese pizzas ever so much. But I can’t remember what their crust was like. They closed by the time I was 10. Bastards. Olympia still has (besides the chains and the sit-down places) Old School Pizzeria, which I think is sort of a New York style pizza- sold by the slice and foldable without being floppy, and Dirty Dave’s, which has a thin and crispy crust and likes to put cashews and shrimp on pizza- better than you’d think if you haven’t had it that. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168/46 "2009-06-10T01:03:39Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > I lived in NYC for 8 years. I traveled to Italy once, for 12 days. Most likely it was due to my own fault of not seeking out the right restaurants, but IMO the Italian food in NYC (including pizza) was _much_ better than what I ate in Italy. Now, I’m certain there are places all over Italy with amazing food, but I didn’t find many. I think it may be a difference of tastes. American-Italian food (like the stuff in NYC) is generally much heartier and heavier than continental Italian food (although there is plenty of difference in styles within Italy. America tends to inherit their food from a Southern Italian/Sicilian pedigree.) American versions of Italian dishes tend to be a _lot_ heavier on the sauce, they tend to use a lot more garlic and dried herbs and often intermix garlic and onion in dishes where, traditionally, in Italy one or the other is used. I find Italian food, as practiced in Italy, to be very much a cuisine of simplicity and purity of flavors and ingredients, and it can be rather difficult here to source the ingredients to pull off authentic Italian dishes (try finding guanciale for carbonara or all’amatriciana–there are at least two mail-order purveyors I know of, but it’s hard enough to find that I cure my own.) My own palate leans towards the cleaner tastes of Italian cooking as practiced in Italy, where the quality of ingredients really shines through. They’re both good (who can resist a NY-Italian Sunday gravy?) but there’s a definite stylistic difference between the way the cuisine is represented here and on the Continent. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168/47 "2009-06-10T01:31:33Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I think it may be a difference of tastes. American-Italian food (like the stuff in NYC) is generally much heartier and heavier than continental Italian food (although there is plenty of difference in styles within Italy. America tends to inherit their food from a Southern Italian/Sicilian pedigree.) American versions of Italian dishes tend to be a _lot_ heavier on the sauce, they tend to use a lot more garlic and dried herbs and often intermix garlic and onion in dishes where, traditionally, in Italy one or the other is used. I find Italian food, as practiced in Italy, to be very much a cuisine of simplicity and purity of flavors and ingredients, and it can be rather difficult here to source the ingredients to pull off authentic Italian dishes (try finding guanciale for carbonara or all’amatriciana–there are at least two mail-order purveyors I know of, but it’s hard enough to find that I cure my own.) My own palate leans towards the cleaner tastes of Italian cooking as practiced in Italy, where the quality of ingredients really shines through. They’re both good (who can resist a NY-Italian Sunday gravy?) but there’s a definite stylistic difference between the way the cuisine is represented here and on the Continent. Maybe more than _tastes_, it was\* expectations\*. In NYC, I knew where to go, or read reviews of places to try. In Italy we just tried places that seemed interesting from a glance. I’ve eaten at Mario Batali’s Po and thought it was amazing, but we went there based on a particular reputation. I guess I had an idea that every restaurant in Bologna/Venice/Rome would be fantastic, which is silly, of course. I will say that we had one spectacular meal at a place called La Giostra in Florence that met our lofty expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168/48 "2009-06-10T02:21:32Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s actually a small chain- there’s one in Missoula and I think one in Kalispell, if not more. I just graduated from UM, and visited Bozeman several times, but somehow never managed to eat at a Mackenzie River. Hopefully when I get back to Montana I’ll get to eat at one. Any specific recommendations? I think my favorite is probably the Flathead: Alfredo, chicken, bacon, spinach, tomatoes, and mushrooms. The Branding Iron, Stockman, and Thai Pie are also good, though. > [@](#): > > (although there is plenty of difference in styles within Italy. America tends to inherit their food from a Southern Italian/Sicilian pedigree.) Indeed. My Italian grandmother, born in the Eternal City, was always disappointed in all the Italian restaurants she found in America, since they were all \ _Sicilian_. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168/49 "2009-06-10T03:53:52Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Ah, I gather you used to cook these monstrosities, unless I’m reading too much into your reply. I can see where a seven-topping fiasco pizza would get annoying to the person who has to cook it. 🙂 That and , from the standpoint of a pragmatic palette, that’s too much. The pizza isn’t balanced. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168/50 "2009-06-10T03:59:30Z")
Also, after reading this, I am fucking hungry. Detroit has some interesting pizza places as well, including [Shield’s](http://www.shieldspizza.com/), [Buddy’s](http://www.buddyspizza.com/), and [Gracie See’s](http://warrendale.blogspot.com/2008/05/follow-up-gracie-see-pizza.html). Ooh, don’t forget [Pizza Papalis](http://www.pizzapapalis.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168/51 "2009-06-10T04:19:19Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Also, after reading this, I am fucking hungry. Detroit has some interesting pizza places as well, including [Shield’s](http://www.shieldspizza.com/), [Buddy’s](http://www.buddyspizza.com/), and [Gracie See’s](http://warrendale.blogspot.com/2008/05/follow-up-gracie-see-pizza.html). > > Ooh, don’t forget [Pizza Papalis](http://www.pizzapapalis.com/). Aaaaand he mentioned Buddy’s. Good call. Buddy’s is pretty solid pizza. ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168/52 "2009-06-10T17:42:45Z")
I’ve travelled very extensively in Italy and never, not even once, had a pizza that was dripping with grease or moisture. Tourist pizza, as with tourist anything in any country, is unlikely to be “the real thing”. One of the best pizzas I ever had anywhere was down some slummy backstreet in a not-great part of Milan. I walked in and asked to see a menu and was given a most bemused look by the guy behind the counter. “No menu. Cheese and tomato,” he said. And my god, it was the most delicious thing I ever put in my mouth. The east coast round Cattolica also has some excellent pizza. And… well, all over. I never met one I didn’t like. I also like American pizza, but it’s not the same thing at all. You really can’t compare them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-american-pizza-is-better-than-italian/499168.md?page=2)