# GQ: what is the implication in facts? (Africa, Tribal, North Africa) **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 30, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049 "2014-10-30T19:40:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/1 "2014-10-30T19:40:03Z")
I will have nothing more to do with[this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17859669)and I think I shall not say anything more about the Africa, but I do not see where this moderation comes from, except it is apparently a great offense to acknowledge the stereotypes about Africa: > [@Who were the North African locals in antiquity?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-north-african-locals-in-antiquity/702947/18): > > **Moderator Note** > > **Ramira** , if you want to make allegations like this, please take it to Great Debates or the Pit. There’s no need for you to try to pick a fight in GQ. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator This is the thread of the conversation: > [@Who were the North African locals in antiquity?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-north-african-locals-in-antiquity/702947/14): > > Archaeologists have found now now well-known paintings comparing Egyptians with other peoples surrounding them. [This one](http://www.studenthandouts.com/1-Student-Handouts/Egyptian-Depictions-of-Ethnic-Groups.jpg), of a Libyan, a Nubian, an Asiatic, and an Egyptian, is probably most famous. > > A somewhat more interesting set can be found on [The Enemies of Ancient Egypt](http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/enemies.htm) page. > > I had to work to find a neutral page to cite. The majority of top hits on Google Images go to white supremacist sites belligerently opposed to afrocentic theories. Those guys are diligent, admittedly, but I don’t want to up their hit count. > \*\* > We also know that a large number of black tribal peoples\*\* now found along the fringes of the Sahara were pushed south when the climate turned drier and the desert rapidly spread. They would have been in today’s North Africa but not along the Mediterranean itself. The emphasis added. Why ‘black tribal’ (which is not even accurate, and has not relevance, not even to distinquish from the ‘white’ Berber. So I observe: > [@Who were the North African locals in antiquity?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-north-african-locals-in-antiquity/702947/15): > > All peoples in this era are tribal. It is not needed to say ‘black tribal’ when we mean the ethnic groups. to this RNATB says > [@Who were the North African locals in antiquity?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-north-african-locals-in-antiquity/702947/16): > > I think he means they’re _still_ tribal. As if this is a contrast to the non-black people of the same region? > [@Who were the North African locals in antiquity?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-north-african-locals-in-antiquity/702947/17): > > I am aware of the American stereotypes. So are the Berber in Lybia still tribal, but it s Black people who are labeled tribal when an ethnic group is really meant. This grows extremely tiresome, this automatic attachement of tribal to a skin color. Extremely. I make the factual reply that the white berber peoples are also tribal and that it is black people of africa who are consistently labeled as tribal, when ethnic group is really meant. This is factual. I only make the comment it is tiresome. To this Colibri says “ **Ramira** , if you want to make allegations like this”… What allegation is made? That the Americans have tribal stereotypes about the Africans? Is this not grotesquely on display in an objective way in every thread about Africa? Look only at the Ebola threads. I am guessing that I am being accused of calling someone racist (which is not done and was not thought), which is of course a grave crime at the SDMB, to even imply by two ricochets it would seem, but it is fine to make statements in the GQ about Africa that are false. I see no reason to further participate in anything about Africa it is not tolerable. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/2 "2014-10-30T19:45:55Z")
“This grows extremely tiresome”… while that may be a factual statement about the way you feel, your personal feelings about the poster’s posting style don’t belong in GQ. Keep it up and you may be voted off the island at the next Tribal Council! ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/3 "2014-10-30T20:03:36Z")
Okay but I did not think of this as any comment on the Poster in fact, although I can now see it. I only meant that the tendency that always something “black” African is called tribal, and here in an instance where there are the “white” Africans in the same cultural framework is tiresome. i did not mean to refer to the Poster or even specifically to that post, but explain the observation as I responded to a person following up, not to the poster. But I look again to “allegation” as I made no “allegation” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/4 "2014-10-30T20:17:31Z")
Your statement that it is only black groups that are ever referred to as being “tribal” on this board is an allegation. If you want to argue that, the best place would be in Great Debates. Your statements in that thread (and I may note, several other recent threads) as well as in the OP here indicate a pattern on your part of taking excessive offense at the comments of other posters. If you can’t participate in the discussion in a more dispassionate fashion, it would be better that you stay out of it (as you say you are going to). You are welcome to pursue the discussion in a more, let us say, vehement manner in Great Debates or preferably the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/5 "2014-10-30T23:13:53Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Your statement that it is only black groups that are ever referred to as being “tribal” on this board is an allegation. Please, tell me where I say “ **only** black groups are **ever** referred to as being ‘tribal’” and then please also tell me where in my quoted words in this thread even where I say this is and that this is specific to this Board. I want to know what words I actually say that have conveyed this. (I add the emphasis). I do not think what I wrote say anthing like this. I also want to understand what the word allegation means for this. > [@](#): > > Your statements in that thread (and I may note, several other recent threads) as well as in the OP here indicate a pattern on your part of taking excessive offense at the comments of other posters. Please tell me what are these points of “excessive offense” as I do not undertand this well. What standard is of excessive offense, on a board that has had the pedophiles posting over many times dispassionately of their passions? Please it is not clear to me, as it is not clear to me how what I wrote makes an “allegation” which I understand in the ordinary Engish is an an accusation, and of what? I also want to know. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/6 "2014-10-31T00:07:01Z")
**Ramira** , I don’t think there is any point arguing with you about this. Just dial it back in General Questions, and don’t get so worked up over perceived offenses. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/7 "2014-10-31T03:19:32Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > I will have nothing more to do with[this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17859669) That’s a shame, you were contributing a lot of good information. > [@](#): > > I make the factual reply that the white berber peoples are also tribal and that it is black people of africa who are consistently labeled as tribal, when ethnic group is really meant. This is a bit confusing. I think “nomadic” might have been a better descriptor in that thread since that is behavior that was being presented as relevant. I think the problem with that thread and your comment is that it was hijacking the topic of discussion from being about ethnic and racial histories of northern Africa to comment upon a perceived sense of prejudice against Black Africans. GQ is very sensitive to political and contentious debate hijacks, which is why **Colibri** interjected his moderator comment. > [@](#): > > Please tell me what are these points of “excessive offense” as I do not undertand this well. Your abandoning that thread over a moderator comment to stay on topic is an example of excessive offense. Let it go, move on, and continue to offer the insightful information you were providing about the history of the region and its ethnic makeup. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/8 "2014-10-31T08:17:11Z")
I support what **Ramira** is saying about the stereotypical use of tribal, which is [widely](http://rjionline.org/ccj/commentary/africa-tribal-europe-ethnic-power-words-media) [acknowledged](http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-19-spring-2001/feature/trouble-tribe) as [problematic](http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/Tribal-Label-Distorts-African-Conflicts/). He may have said it in a way that wasn’t GQ, and the mod note was warranted, but it’s a valid point that shouldn’t need to be sidelined to a separate discussion just for being pointed out. Especially in a thread _about_ ethnicities, pointing out that debaters are using loaded words to describe different groups isn’t a hijack, it’s privilege checking. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/9 "2014-10-31T12:43:09Z")
“Tribal is a loaded term” is an opinion, not a fact. Facts are for GQ; opinions are for GD. Opinions about race are for the Pit, no matter what they are. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/10 "2014-10-31T14:41:28Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I support what **Ramira** is saying about the stereotypical use of tribal, which is [widely](http://rjionline.org/ccj/commentary/africa-tribal-europe-ethnic-power-words-media) [acknowledged](http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-19-spring-2001/feature/trouble-tribe) as [problematic](http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/Tribal-Label-Distorts-African-Conflicts/). He may have said it in a way that wasn’t GQ, and the mod note was warranted, but it’s a valid point that shouldn’t need to be sidelined to a separate discussion just for being pointed out. Especially in a thread _about_ ethnicities, pointing out that debaters are using loaded words to describe different groups isn’t a hijack, it’s privilege checking. My note was especially directed to the accusatory tone of **Ramira’s** posts. However, I disagree that the discussion of the use of “tribal” was appropriate to the thread, especially with **Ramira’s** implication that it was racist. While it might have been appropriate to point it the controversy surrounding the term, this issue is sufficiently contentious that it would be better addressed in GD; or, given the degree to which **Ramira** took offense, the Pit. My intention was not to prohibit this discussion, but just to direct it to a more appropriate forum. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/11 "2014-10-31T22:26:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Just dial it back in General Questions, and don’t get so worked up over perceived offenses. Whoa. That sounds quite dismissive and a bit rude. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/12 "2014-10-31T22:49:54Z")
_sniff of Eurocentric indignation__ **MY** _ people didn’t belong to tribes. They belonged to clans. There’s a difference, of some sort, somewhere, I think. And only if it can be used to make me feel superior. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/13 "2014-11-01T02:38:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I support what **Ramira** is saying about the stereotypical use of tribal, which is [widely](http://rjionline.org/ccj/commentary/africa-tribal-europe-ethnic-power-words-media) [acknowledged](http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-19-spring-2001/feature/trouble-tribe) as [problematic](http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/Tribal-Label-Distorts-African-Conflicts/). Thank you for the information. No snark intended. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/14 "2014-11-01T04:41:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > “Tribal is a loaded term” is an opinion, not a fact. GQ is just full of opinions, then. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/15 "2014-11-01T04:43:44Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > My note was especially directed to the accusatory tone of **Ramira’s** posts. However, I disagree that the discussion of the use of “tribal” was appropriate to the thread, especially with **Ramira’s** implication that it was racist. While it might have been appropriate to point it the controversy surrounding the term, this issue is sufficiently contentious that it would be better addressed in GD; or, given the degree to which **Ramira** took offense, the Pit. My intention was not to prohibit this discussion, but just to direct it to a more appropriate forum. I said just pointing it out was what should be OK, of course a full discussion should take place in another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/16 "2014-11-01T11:41:26Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > GQ is just full of opinions, then. It shouldn’t be. It is supposed to be for facts, which is what I said and you cut off. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/17 "2014-11-01T13:59:03Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It shouldn’t be. It is supposed to be for facts, which is what I said and you cut off. > > Regards, > Shodan Yeah, maybe. But just offering an opinion is rarely moderated. The issue here is not that an opinion was offered, but the way it was offered. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/18 "2014-11-01T16:21:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, maybe. But just offering an opinion is rarely moderated. The issue here is not that an opinion was offered, but the way it was offered. Correct. We of course allow some expression of opinions. It only becomes a problem when the stated opinions are ones that will likely foster a debate or a major hijack of the existing thread. And of course, we’re not saying that these opinions can’t be expressed, just that it would be better to discuss them in another forum or thread. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/19 "2014-11-01T17:15:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > “Tribal is a loaded term” is an opinion, not a fact. Fine–then “tribal is a term often used imprecisely and inconsistently in a manner that leads to confusion” is a fact, not an opinion, at least by the standards found in GQ. But let’s not call it loaded. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049/20 "2014-11-01T17:28:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Fine–then “tribal is a term often used imprecisely and inconsistently in a manner that leads to confusion” is a fact, not an opinion, at least by the standards found in GQ. But let’s not call it loaded. Unless it is clearly being used that way in that thread, then it’s a hijack. Correct the use, don’t hijack the thread into a discussion about the use of the term elsewhere. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gq-what-is-the-implication-in-facts-africa-tribal-north-africa/703049.md?page=2)