# Grade the Matrix \[Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262 "2003-05-19T21:13:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![skaterboarder87](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@skaterboarder87](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skaterboarder87)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/21 "2003-05-21T03:02:54Z")
I was a hardcore fan and that’s why I was disappointed. It felt too much like a Star Trek movie at times; it just wasn’t as good as the original. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/22 "2003-05-21T03:06:26Z")
> [@](#): > > the ones (weak pun intended) that wanted to see more than trippy wire tricks. LOL, yeah, that’s it, I’m just not deep enough to appreciate the high art of the half-hour long car chase/gunfight. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/23 "2003-05-21T03:29:11Z")
Original: A+ (after the first, second, tenth, thirtieth viewing) Reloaded: B+ after the first viewing A after the second viewing ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/24 "2003-05-21T03:37:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*LOL, yeah, that’s it, I’m just not deep enough to appreciate the high art of the half-hour long car chase/gunfight. 😛 \*\* Upcoming release schedule for you: May 23 Bruce Almighty Universal The In-Laws Warner Bros. June 13 Dumb and Dumberer New Line From Justin to Kelly Fox Rugrats Go Wild Paramount June 27 28 Days Later (LTD) Fox Searchlight Charlie’s Angels: Full Throttle Sony July 2 Legally Blonde 2 MGM July 18 Bad Boys II Sony Aug 15 Freddy vs. Jason New Line ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/25 "2003-05-21T03:39:05Z")
C (A- for the original). Low points: - Morpheus’ speech: “let’s show those machines how determined we are! **Let’s dance!!!** ” yowsa. - Boring pointless fights that didn’t advance the story. - Zion in general, esp internal politics. It felt like SW Imperial Council scenes. I was expecting Padme to show up at that council meeting. Yawn. - Monologs. Zillions of monologs. Especially the Architect: blah blah blah. Neo, would you please shut this guy up? Quite a few parts were fun and interesting. But they could have cut an hour out of the movie, easy, and not lose very much. ---
**Author:** ![Obvious\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Obvious\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obvious_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/26 "2003-05-21T04:02:00Z")
I really liked the first one, was a bit dissapointed with the second. It was way to talkie at times, and some scenes they could have done without. i.e. the love scene (which went on way too long) and the teahouse fight scene (which seemed pointless.) It did have it’s moments tho, the Bearly Brawl and I liked the tension between Trinity and Persephone. In anycase I’ll see Matrix: Revolutions and hope that Reloaded was just a setup for it. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/27 "2003-05-21T05:50:59Z")
I’m one of the few that finds the first one to be mind numbingly stupid, so I actually like Reloaded more. I’d give it about a B whereas I thought the original was about a C. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/28 "2003-05-21T06:07:46Z")
The depth that people see in this series is around the level of college-dorm bullshit-session philosophy; fun, but certainly not original, and nothing much to get worked up about. As a framework to hang an action film on, it was amazing. As a philosophy to deconstruct, it’s pretty flimsy. So, I was pretty seriously bored during the film. There wasn’t any of the visceral excitement in any of the fight scenes; I kept thinking of them in terms of technical achievement, and didn’t really ever think of how they affected the characters. And some of them were, as has been pointed out, completely pointless. Especially the Agent Smiths fight; why the heck did he stay even that long? Meanwhile, Neo also gets distracted beating up flunkies. I thought he had the power to change the world around him? Why not have the house just eat them? Have the ceiling fall on them? Have the earth open up and swallow them whole? Not too bright, our omnipotent pal. Another thing that bugged me was the music; often it didn’t seem to fit the scenes at all, and it never came close to reaching the pinnacles of scoring that the first film hit. The scene in the lobby, for instance. Nothing came anywhere close. And, of course, the Exposition Fairy took a liberal dump all over this freaking film. I just hope that clears all the long, drawn out explanations out of the way so they can make an enjoyable conclusion. Characterization was weak, dialog was weak, scenery was nice. But it seemed like an awful lot of trouble to go to to save a Phish concert. I give it a **C**. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/29 "2003-05-21T13:07:26Z")
B minus. The Fraggle Rock Rave was bad, but since I had heard how truly Godawful it was, I was actually expecting something worse, so I ended up pleased that it wasn’t quite as terrible as I had been led to believe. The movie wasn’t written very well (and I don’t primarily mean the dialogue; I mean the writing of the whole movie) but there were some good scenes and the twist at the end was a little more imaginative than I was expecting. Both “Matrix” movies have to be understood as fulfilling a very specific niche; **the movies are the ultimate fantasy of a computer nerd.** You’re basically watching the cinematic version of a geeky 14-year-old’s fantasies. Given that, I think they do a pretty good job, because it would be so much worse in the hands of less daring people. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/30 "2003-05-21T14:00:55Z")
Did anyone else notice that most of Zion is black? And that bras haven’t been reinvented? Original B, Reloaded gets an F. I found myself yawning during the long, uninventive action sequences. The philosophy was silly. And my husband and I kept cringing over the bloody “I-can’t-live-without-you” scenes. Don’t the ever, oh, argue? Or do laundry, or water the plants together or something? Something that involves talking? The rave scene was like Fraggle Rock. I should have noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Eman\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Eman\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eman_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/31 "2003-05-21T15:20:19Z")
It gets a solid B. Original gets an A-. ---
**Author:** ![kasuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@kasuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kasuo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/32 "2003-05-21T15:34:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissla Lissar \* > **Did anyone else notice that most of Zion is black?** Heh, and what’s funnier is that most, if not all, of the council is white. > [@](#): > > **And that bras haven’t been reinvented?** Well, that’s not always necessarily a _bad_ thing. Anyhoo, to go along with the nerdy grading scale, I give the movie a C#. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/33 "2003-05-21T16:02:11Z")
> [@](#): > > This is gonna sound weird, but durring the dance scene in Zion, I thought to myself: “This place looks just like Fraggle Rock”. You’re [not the only one](http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/film_review.asp?ID=677): > [@](#): > > Zion (think “Fraggle Rock” meets Jennifer Lopez’s “Waiting For Tonight” video) Personally, I saw it last night and would give it 4 out of 10; I saw the original (the first time since 1999) on the big screen three days ago and would give that a 9. Seriously disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/34 "2003-05-21T16:22:17Z")
Holy cow! Plugging “Fraggle Rock” and “Zion” into Yahoo also gives me: [This](http://www.filmthreat.com/Reviews.asp?Id=4542) > [@](#): > > After that, the gang gets to Zion, the place we’ve been hearing so much about. It’s a slacker shithole, complete with “Fraggle Rock” stalactites and lava effects. [And this](http://www.post-gazette.com/movies/20030515matrix0515fnp2.asp) > [@](#): > > Yes, when we finally get to see the promised land of Zion, we wonder what the fuss is about – it looks like the Post-Gazette Pavilion relocated in Fraggle Rock. I guess I’m not as original as I thought. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/35 "2003-05-21T18:06:42Z")
I give it an A+ for doing a damn fine job of putting butts in the seats. ---
**Author:** ![DEVA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@DEVA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DEVA)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/36 "2003-05-22T00:03:59Z")
Okay, Okay. The jig is up. “Most of Zion was black and most (if not all) of the counsel is white.” You guys didn’t REALLY see Reloaded, did you? I mean…Dr. Cornell frickin’ West is among the counsel members. And most humans look like someone of color when their dirty and only being seen in a poorly lit cave (but I did note the more than usual number of ethnic characters in this movie). Frankly, most of the people appeared to be of a more hispanic ethnic make-up instead of AA. Now, the Chancellor (I think that’s his title) was white. He was also older than most other people in Zion, so that made sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/37 "2003-05-22T01:39:45Z")
Careful guys, apparently [Laurence Fishburne](http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-12324684,00.html) does not take kindly to criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/38 "2003-05-22T02:43:34Z")
I give it a C+. It was an acceptable summer diversion. The first half hour or so was awful, though. The boring secondary characters, awful faux-primitive costumes, and flat dialogue made it feel like a demonic collaboration between George Lucas and the Star Trek writing staff. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/39 "2003-05-22T03:04:29Z")
A- I thought it was better than the original (which I would give a B-). ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262/40 "2003-05-22T03:14:27Z")
It was very, very **GREEN**. I got bored of the whole kung fu-hang-in-the-air-for-45-seconds-at-a-time fighting thing 5 years ago. I really loved the two semis smashing together. That was cool. As for the dialogue, Christ, that was some of the most boring and pointless drivel I’ve heard since the freshmen debate team. The speeches completely killed the movie. As for the whole “mythology/spirituality” vibe that supposedly runs through the movies, please :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I’ve heard better mumbo-jumbo talk that made more sense from Miss Cleo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grade-the-matrix-spoilers/176262.md?page=3)