# Grading criteria of our daughter's HS teacher. Unfair? (Need answer fast.) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 2, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488 "2015-06-02T23:24:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/61 "2015-06-03T19:07:24Z")
Yes, its wrong, but probably complaining will do nothing. I went back to college as an adult able to do my own complaining, so I know. I wrote a paper in a course that was graded on a curve. My grade was “B++”. The school has published a list of the grades in confers and B++ in not on it. I asked the TA how many people got A’s. “None.” “How many other people got B++?” “None.” In other words, I got the highest score in the class graded on a curve, and she wouldn’t give me an A. Complaining to the professor and then to the department chair was a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/62 "2015-06-03T19:12:39Z")
And for those kids that the parents refuse to let their kids go out to sell in/to the public? ---
**Author:** ![Hedda\_Rosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hedda_rosa/32/1204_2.png) [@Hedda\_Rosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hedda_Rosa)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/63 "2015-06-03T19:22:07Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > And for those kids that the parents refuse to let their kids go out to sell in/to the public? Then don’t take the class. However, not sure we have yet had it confirmed the class is an elective or required though; that significantly changes the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/64 "2015-06-03T20:15:55Z")
> [@Lowdown](#): > > I think it’s absurd, and if it were my kid I’d be livid…buuuuuuuut…the time for complaining about it is the moment requirements are known, not _after_ you try and get the F. The time to complain is now. If it’s unfair, there are better times to complain, but there’s no time that’s inappropriate to complain. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/65 "2015-06-03T20:58:57Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Could be the school district is thinking of cancelling the yearbooks due to low sales. Cancelling the yearbooks may mean that the teacher either has to go teach classes he is entirely not interested in or he gets laid off. Either way, he may be taking desperate measures to save his own skin and screw the kids if it doesn’t work for him. > > Doesn’t mean it’s ok for the teacher. I do think teaching salesmanship is a good skill, I don’t think that the dollar amount sold is an appropriate way to grade a student. Heh - Stanford this year is cancelling the production of The Quad - their yearbook. > **[Quad Yearbook canceled due to lack of interest](https://stanforddaily.com/2015/04/06/according-to-john-nguyen-15-the-editor-in-chief-of-the-stanford-quad-yearbook-an-independent-student-run-group-which-normally-releases-a-four-class-yearbook-every-year-the-quad-will-not-pr/)** > > According to John Nguyen ’15, the editor-in-chief of the Stanford Quad Yearbook, an independent student-run group which normally releases a four-class ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/66 "2015-06-03T21:21:24Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > What is this? **Glengarry Glen Ross**? Chocolate milk’s for closers! ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/67 "2015-06-03T21:57:10Z")
When did your daughter get the grading criteria? Was it before the drop and add deadline? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/68 "2015-06-03T22:23:02Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > On the one hand, how ridiculous is it that any course, in any high school is, in any part, hawking ads and yearbooks, to make the grade? Must be an ‘only in America’ thing, I’m thinking. > > That said, if the criteria was laid out for her before she signed up for the course, I reckon she’s gotta play along now. The other kids have to, not all can be urban, some others must also be in the rural areas, have no DL, etc., and so should she. > > If she’s being blindsided make a fuss. If she knew this was the deal going in, she has no complaint and you should both accept the C graciously. > > Has it occurred to you that other parents may have driven their kids around to sell, and the no DL excuse is really going to rub them the wrong way? I’m with this. Some classes, in HS, are promoting entrepreneurship, sales, etc…and incorporate some of this junk in it. The students don’t work hard-my best friend usually left class an hour or two early, because he had only some minor sales objective. He took the class knowing what he was in store for. I avoided the class for the same reason. A yearbook class, 3/4 through the school year isn’t doing anything, because the yearbook is already a wrap. Of course, transportation could be an issue, but, the class shouldn’t be blamed for that-if the victim, er student, knew about it, she just wasn’t prepared. For the record, I think that any class that requires you to sell anything is a prescription for failure. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/69 "2015-06-03T22:45:25Z")
Thinking back to my HS days (a long, long time ago), if you were on staff, you had to make an effort to sell ads and document that you’d tried. It was part of the grade and it was well known. I think I remember there was a list of companies that had bought ads before to help with the process. But the grade was based on the attempt, not the result. I’m also among those wondering who the teacher thinks they’re selling yearbooks to? Students are either going to buy them or not. No one else really wants a copy of the yearbook. In my school, pretty much everyone bought a yearbook, “selling” was sitting at a table for a week or so in fall so students could drop off checks. Is that even a thing in this day of electronic payments for everything? I could also see requiring students to spend a period or a lunch or even several periods or lunches manning the sales table for part of the grade. But again, not basing the grade on the result, but the effort and availability. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/70 "2015-06-03T22:43:44Z")
Nm ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/71 "2015-06-03T22:46:52Z")
Your daughter is an artist. She should retain copyright on her works unless specifically signed away to the school. And if she didn’t do that, she is perfectly within her rights to demand that her creative work not be published. They can edit her work out, and if the yearbook has been printed they can reprint it or take a razor and cut her work out out of each copy. There is probably room to negotiate in there somewhere. I’d go for a cut of the $70 price and part of the ad revenue. Or even an A. ---
**Author:** ![Quill\_Scroll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Quill\_Scroll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quill_Scroll)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/72 "2015-06-03T23:04:34Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Wait, they earn credits for working on the yearbook like it was a real class? It _is_ a real class, or it certainly was when I was in high school. I got an “A” and represented my high school at the annual Quill and Scroll Society meeting out of state. I don’t recall ever having to sell any yearbooks; however, I held several positions on the yearbook staff, one of which was advertising manager, and I sold more ads to local businesses than anyone (of any school year) and that may have helped my grade somewhat, though I don’t know. I enjoyed all of the hard work. Our teacher never even suggested that our grades were dependent on sales, and only a few of us sold ads, and none of us sold yearbooks. As a journalist, I took the class seriously, and still had a lot of fun. I can’t imagine that a teacher would flunk someone because they did not sell a lot, but I definitely could see doing that if the person did not even try (or worse, sabotaged the productivity of the yearbook class by being adamant that they are “above it all” and as an artist" don’t feel they need to do it at all) IF it was known to be part of the class description that one must sell yearbooks. It’s a team effort and all must at least participate in the class, and if that includes selling, then that can be part of the criteria for the grade. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/73 "2015-06-03T23:35:02Z")
This just sounds too crazy. Was the threshold something easy, like sell 4=A, 3=B, 2=C, 1=D and 0=E? I can’t imagine anyone would expect a kid to sell 10 yearbooks. Also, you people expecting a kid to go door-to-door are ridiculous. No one expects that; she’s supposed to set up a table in the lunchroom or hawk them where parents with check books are–like at a baseball game, tennis match, etc. By all means call the principal, or a lawyer, or the press. But you may find that the principal is well aware of the policy and endorses it. It may be that the grading policy was clearly defined in a syllabus in September, the target number is not viewed by the school as burdensome, and students who objected to selling were supposed to drop in January. I don’t blame you for wanting to resolve this quickly, but it’s not unusual for parents to dispute a grade in September. (I assume your daughter’s a junior.) ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/74 "2015-06-03T23:45:08Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I’m going to take back my “let it go” advice. The more I think about this the more odd it seems. Raise a fuss the local newspaper should love to dig into a pack of nonsense like this. Definitely use RealityChuck’s “What is this “Glengarry-Glen Ross”?” line. In this case, it’s really easy to do the math. $70 times the number of books to be sold for an A equals the cost of buying an A. The ads complicate things a little, but you and your daughter together have probably got enough information to calculate the size of the bribe that was being requested. At least, I’m assuming that fits “Glengarry-Glen Ross”. Like **astro** , I’ve never seen it. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/75 "2015-06-03T23:49:01Z")
> [@Quill\_Scroll](#): > > It _is_ a real class, or it certainly was when I was in high school. It wasn’t when I was a kid in the not-so-distant 90s. I was on yearbook, edited and wrote for the school lit magazine, was VP of the ecology club, did a couple of years of Amigos (big brother/big sister program with the elementary school), and was in national honor society. We didn’t get credit for _any_ of those activities, but we could list them on our college applications. It strikes me as odd that this has apparently changed. Are kids required to earn more credits to graduate, then? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/76 "2015-06-03T23:55:51Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > It strikes me as odd that this has apparently changed. Or maybe different schools are different. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/77 "2015-06-04T00:01:37Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > It wasn’t when I was a kid in the not-so-distant 90s. I was on yearbook, edited and wrote for the school lit magazine, was VP of the ecology club, did a couple of years of Amigos (big brother/big sister program with the elementary school), and was in national honor society. We didn’t get credit for _any_ of those activities, but we could list them on our college applications. It strikes me as odd that this has apparently changed. Are kids required to earn more credits to graduate, then? It’s probably got more to do with the individual school than the time- both the yearbook (art) and the school newspaper ( English) were actual classes when I graduated when I graduated in 1981. Of course, it wasn’t the sort of small school where you would have 10th grade English or social studies - there were 4000 students in the school and multiple choices in every department. Four years of English were required, but once you finished your semester or two of Comp you had your choice of many courses. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/78 "2015-06-04T00:12:35Z")
All through grade and high school, I refused to allow my kids to harass our neighbors. Whatever minimum sales were expected, I bought, then gave away or trashed the crap I purchased. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/79 "2015-06-04T01:10:44Z")
I don’t know the US school system, but I do run a marketing agency and deal with freelance graphic designers all the time. Their job is split between creating the art, and being able to find jobs and sell themselves to potential clients (creatives in agencies still have to sell concepts to clients to a certain extent but do have added account management support to do this). So I can see aspects of this that would actually be helpful to her if she was seriously considering a career in graphic design/art. My mum is a tutor at an tertiary-level art school and the number of stories she shares of students coming out with no commercial nous is pretty alarming. I wonder why selling ads over the phone to local businesses wasn’t an option? She could even have put together a mailout/email prospectus and called up after to discuss. That would have not required a car - or she could have shortlisted those interested and arranged to meet them in person at a specific time. So I’m kind of sympathetic that selling is hard, but if she knew it was part of the curriculum perhaps she could have put more thought into creative ways to address the problem? ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488/80 "2015-06-04T01:23:01Z")
My wife is a high school teacher and an art teacher. I showed her this and she said it’s bs. She said you should discuss this with the principal and if he is unresponsive to go to the county school board. I my opinion this is come unfair and your daughter doesn’t deserve to have her gpa trashed because she couldn’t sell. If they want sales people, then hire some and pay them commissions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grading-criteria-of-our-daughters-hs-teacher-unfair-need-answer-fast/721488.md?page=5)