# Graham Chapman and Python's gay material **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 2, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107 "2009-11-02T23:18:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/1 "2009-11-02T23:18:04Z")
This is probably an unanswerable question, but – does anyone know what Graham Chapman thought about the gay material in _Monty Python_? Did he think it was funny? Did he help write it? Was it too silly to matter? And how was it received in England at the time? Was Chapman publicly out? FTR, I wonder about Nathan Lane in _The Producers_ as well, so it’s not just Python. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/2 "2009-11-03T00:45:22Z")
IIRC, Chapman had no problem with it. I think he took part in some of the skits. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/3 "2009-11-03T01:27:03Z")
I don’t remember there being that much gay material, relatively speaking. And Chapman seems to have played a major part in many of the ones I can think of offhand (which indicates he may have played a part in writing them – I believe the Python teams tended to write for themselves, generally speaking?): - Chapman as Raymond Luxury-Yacht going for a nose job, and Cleese (as the doctor) suggesting that he’ll do the surgery if Luxury-Yacht goes out with him. (“He asked me! He asked me!”) - Chapman as continuity announcer David Unction, who’s yelled at by a Viking (Jones), “Get on with it, you fairy!” Unction replies in a very campy, “Well, hellooo sailor!” and when the Viking insists that he and his fellow Vikings were all dead butch, Unction comments dryly, “that’s not what _I’ve_ heard” - Chapman as Biggles, getting into an argument with his sexy secretary about whether Algy is really a ‘fairy’ (“oooh, poof’s not good enough for Algy, he’s got to be a bleedin’ _fairy_!”) and eventually shooting Algy as a result. - Chapman as the third man in the hilarious marriage registrar sketch, where Eric Idle plays the registrar whom Terry Jones apparently _doesn’t_ want to marry. This is almost certainly an Idle sketch. - Chapman as the hideously garbed wife who’s fascinated and titilated by the gastropod documentary given by John Cleese – and then disgusted by the whelk, who’s after all nothing but a homosexual of the worst kind. In fact, the only one I can think of without Chapman – though I’m sure there are more – is the Brigadier and the Bishop sketch, from Season 4. Unless you count “The Mouse Problem,” which is obviously an allegory. Admittedly I’m straight so maybe my judgment isn’t worth much, but it doesn’t seem as if their gay stuff was very offensive; it tends to send up the bigots rather than the gay guys, although gays are often portrayed stereotypically. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/4 "2009-11-03T02:00:18Z")
Chapman didn’t publicly come out until the 1970s, though I’m sure the other Pythons must have known. At very least Cleese must have since he and Chapman knew each other before Python and were writing partners on the show. (Chapman and Cleese were a team within the team, as were Palin and Jones, while Gilliam and Idle were more solo.) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/5 "2009-11-03T02:10:03Z")
I saw him speak and he claimed Cleese was the most surprised when he came out. Absolutely dumbfounded, though Chapman would show up at parties with his twink of the week. Yeah, it’s hard to believe, but some people are so deeply in denial that they can convince themselves of anything. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/6 "2009-11-03T02:38:46Z")
> [@choie](#): > > - Chapman as continuity announcer David Unction, who’s yelled at by a Viking (Jones), “Get on with it, you fairy!” Unction replies in a very campy, “Well, hellooo sailor!” and when the Viking insists that he and his fellow Vikings were all dead butch, Unction comments dryly, “that’s not what _I’ve_ heard” Is that the one where he’s looking at a muscle magazine? One of the first gay Python sketches that comes to mind is the Homicidal Barber, featuring the Lumberjack Song, which starred Palin and Jones. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/7 "2009-11-03T02:46:48Z")
I had no idea he was gay until this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/8 "2009-11-03T03:05:29Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Chapman didn’t publicly come out until the 1970s, though I’m sure the other Pythons must have known. At very least Cleese must have since he and Chapman knew each other before Python and were writing partners on the show. (Chapman and Cleese were a team within the team, as were Palin and Jones, while Gilliam and Idle were more solo.) Chapman had a coming out party for his friends in 1967, when he and Cleese were working together on _At Last the 1948 Show_. Eric Idle was also invited. I’ve always loved the story that during the third season of the Flying Circus, they got a letter from a religious “homosexuality-is-a-sin” type complaining that one of the Pythons had admitted to being gay. Eric Idle wrote back, saying “We’ve found out who it was, and had him shot.” Then, of course, on the fourth season John Cleese was missing! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/9 "2009-11-03T03:10:52Z")
I think he was living with his boyfriend (David Sherlock) by the time MP was on the air. I read excerpts from [A Liar’s Autobiography Volume VI](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Liar's_Autobiography)years ago but never could find a print copy reasonably. I don’t believe I’ve tried since the Internet; must check to see if it’s ever been re-released. The excerpts were hysterical. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/10 "2009-11-03T03:22:30Z")
I read his autobiography years ago and I remember his telling about his “coming-out party.” All I really remember was that he said Idle was kinda shocked – he said something about Idle was the “youngest” (although technically Palin is the youngest), meaning most “sheltered,” I guess. The book also says he didn’t figure out he was gay until his early twenties at least – he had a girlfriend and almost married her! He describes walking down the street, trying to figure out how many of the men v. women he passed he found attractive. When it got to be 70-30 in favor of the men, he knew. The book is annoying because he talks about a lot of heavy-duty personal stuff in a jokey kind of way, and as he says the book is “mostly true,” well then, you never know if what you’re reading is the truth or a story or a joke. I wonder if he was like that in real life. I wonder why he started drinking, if he was really unhappy about something. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/11 "2009-11-03T03:48:25Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > The book is annoying because he talks about a lot of heavy-duty personal stuff in a jokey kind of way, and as he says the book is “mostly true,” well then, you never know if what you’re reading is the truth or a story or a joke. I wonder if he was like that in real life. I wonder why he started drinking, if he was really unhappy about something. I once attended a lecture by a Hollywood insider sort of guy and he had a little anecdote that people new to Hollywood and fame would often decide to throw a party and so they’d figure that they should invite some comedians as guests, cause hey, comedians are funny! Well so the party would start and one by one the comedians would force other guests to flee the party and drag down the night because they were all really political and opinionated and had no issue telling you just what they thought. That’s why they become comedians, because they’re essentially professional complainers–they’ve just been able to find ways to complain that people find amusing if it’s not in-your-face, casual speak. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/12 "2009-11-03T04:10:01Z")
Let’s not forget that Graham Chapman loved inappropriate humor. The more inappropriate, the better. They were in Poland one time and as they neared Auschwitz, they were initially denied entrance. Graham Chapman shouted from the back of the bus, “Tell them we’re Jewish!” ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/13 "2009-11-03T04:39:29Z")
> [@choie](#): > > In fact, the only one I can think of without Chapman – though I’m sure there are more – is the Brigadier and the Bishop sketch, from Season 4. Unless you count “The Mouse Problem,” which is obviously an allegory. There’s a Cleese and Palin sketch about a guy and a cop: \* Cut to a policeman standing in a street man comes up to him.\* **Man** Inspector, inspector. **Inspector** Uh huh. **Man** I’m terribly sorry but I was sitting on a park bench over there, took my coat off for a minute and then I found my wallet had been stolen and £15 taken from it. **Inspector** Well did you er, did you see anyone take it, anyone hanging around or… **Man** No no, there was no one there at all. That’s the trouble. **Inspector** Well there’s not very much we can do about that, sir. **Man** Do you want to come back to my place? **Inspector** … Yeah all right. I assume that’s a gay reference and not a drug reference… This was from episode 13 in 1970. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/14 "2009-11-03T05:26:19Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I assume that’s a gay reference and not a drug reference… This was from episode 13 in 1970. Oh, I’ve always seen it as a gay reference. It isn’t funny to me otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/15 "2009-11-03T07:45:18Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > Is that the one where he’s looking at a muscle magazine? Yep, that’s the one. 🙂 > [@](#): > > One of the first gay Python sketches that comes to mind is the Homicidal Barber, featuring the Lumberjack Song, which starred Palin and Jones. The Lumberjack isn’t gay. He’s got his best girlie by his side, remember? He’s transvestite but not gay. (Rather progressive of the Pythons to know that the two aren’t the same thing, in fact…) > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > There’s a Cleese and Palin sketch about a guy and a cop: > \* > Cut to a policeman standing in a street man comes up to him.\* > **Man** Inspector, inspector. > **Inspector** Uh huh. > **Man** I’m terribly sorry but I was sitting on a park bench over there, took my coat off for a minute and then I found my wallet had been stolen and £15 taken from it. > **Inspector** Well did you er, did you see anyone take it, anyone hanging around or… > **Man** No no, there was no one there at all. That’s the trouble. > **Inspector** Well there’s not very much we can do about that, sir. > **Man** Do you want to come back to my place? > **Inspector** … Yeah all right. > > I assume that’s a gay reference and not a drug reference… This was from episode 13 in 1970. Ooh definitely a gay reference. And how could I have forgotten that? One of my favorites despite being so short. Palin is _so_ damn adorable with his lengthy pause and sudden bashful, “D’you want to go back to my place?” Improvised, IIRC. (Another tiny Palin/Cleese sketch is also a favorite – the Fish Slapping Dance.) And here’s another non-Chapman sketch with gay characters: > [@Poufy Judges](#): > > **First Judge** : Oh, I’ve had _such_ a morning in the High Court. I could stamp my little feet the way those QC’s carry on! > **Second Judge** : Don’t I know it, love. > **First Judge** : Objection here, objection there! And that nice policeman giving his evidence so well - beautiful speaking voice … well after a bit all I could do was bang my little gavel. > **Second Judge** : You what, love? > **First Judge** : I banged me gavel. I did me ‘silence in court’ bit. Ooh! If looks could kill that prosecuting counsel would be in for thirty years. How did your summing up go? > **Second Judge** : Well, I was quite pleased actually. I was trying to do my butch voice, you know, ‘what the jury must understand’, and they loved it, you know. I could see that foreman eyeing me. > **First Judge** : Really? > **Second Judge** : Yes, cheeky devil… And of course, there’s also the [Close Order Swanning About](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_iH1GhM2j8&feature=fvw) sketch. God I love this show. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/16 "2009-11-03T14:16:06Z")
There is no reason why Graham would not write, perform, enjoy or hate it any more or less than the rest. I never picked up any vibe in interviews or books that it would make a difference to him or the others. It’s such a non-issue they barely even mention it (except for the documentary where they remember that he got off with a mountie in Canada). > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Chapman had a coming out party for his friends in 1967, when he and Cleese were working together on _At Last the 1948 Show_. Eric Idle was also invited. > > I’ve always loved the story that during the third season of the Flying Circus, they got a letter from a religious “homosexuality-is-a-sin” type complaining that one of the Pythons had admitted to being gay. Eric Idle wrote back, saying “We’ve found out who it was, and had him shot.” Then, of course, on the fourth season John Cleese was missing! Yes, after he had mentioned it on a TV chat show, which I think was hosted by George Melly (but it is not mentioned anywhere for sure). And of course there is the Mouse Problem. Forget homosexuality, these rodents are the real issue here! :eek: Funny, isn’t it, the prophetic value of the Mouse Problem, if you look at the furry fetish some people have today. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/17 "2009-11-03T14:27:01Z")
What about ‘It’s a MAN’S life in the Royal British Navy’? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/18 "2009-11-03T15:11:54Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > One of the first gay Python sketches that comes to mind is the Homicidal Barber, featuring the Lumberjack Song, which starred Palin and Jones. > [@choie](#): > > The Lumberjack isn’t gay. He’s got his best girlie by his side, remember? He’s transvestite but not gay. He also sings he wishes he was born a girlie like his dear Mama (sometimes “Papa” is sung instead, like in _Something Completely Different_ or _Live at the Hollywood Bowl_). So, depending on the venue, he’s either transexual or a gay-leaning bisexual. Unless his “Papa” was a lesbian. ---
**Author:** ![Anonymous\_Coward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@Anonymous\_Coward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anonymous_Coward)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/19 "2009-11-03T15:26:17Z")
Chapman was in the Bruces sketch. Rule number one (and 3, 5, and 7!) - No Poofters! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107/20 "2009-11-03T15:30:59Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > He also sings he wishes he was born a girlie like his dear Mama (sometimes “Papa” is sung instead, like in _Something Completely Different_ or _Live at the Hollywood Bowl_). So, depending on the venue, he’s either transexual or a gay-leaning bisexual. Unless his “Papa” was a lesbian. Yes, in the words of Eddie Izzard, he’s “a lesbian trapped in the body of a man”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-chapman-and-pythons-gay-material/516107.md?page=2)