# Graham Norton hit a new low tonight **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2003, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145 "2003-03-17T23:34:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/1 "2003-03-17T23:34:29Z")
His guests were Westlife, an Irish boy band. He had them posed as little leprechauns, singing “The Fields of Athenry” (Ireland’s unofficial national anthem) in a Chipmunks style rendition. To American dopers this might not seem like such a big deal. But on a British television show, it’s not far off from Little Black Sambo. Graham, you’ve officially sold your soul. Now fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/2 "2003-03-17T23:47:46Z")
I cannot watch the man anymore. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/3 "2003-03-18T00:38:13Z")
For those of us who are poor, uneducated murrikins, could someone provide a translation? Something like … O’Town singing Carmina Burana, or perhaps Luciano Pavarotti (sp) … I dunno, rapping? :clueless: ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/4 "2003-03-18T00:41:10Z")
Hey, I’d pay good money to see Pavarotti rapping. ---
**Author:** ![Lucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/5 "2003-03-18T00:43:12Z")
I’m not totally sure what it was you found offensive, either. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not doubting there was good reason, but I’m afraid it’s not crossing cultures well. Would you mind a little elaboration to help fight international ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/6 "2003-03-18T00:50:44Z")
Maybe a not-very-waterholding-analogy might be _Menudo_ singing _This Land Is Your Land, This Land Is My Land_ while dressed like Juan Valdez, complete with coffee totin’ burro. On the Fourth of July. I can’t believe _Westlife_ did it. Was it supposed to be funny? ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/7 "2003-03-18T00:51:37Z")
I’ll take a WAG and say it would be equivalent to G. Gordon Liddy having a bunch of guys in blackface singing “We Shall Overcome” on Martin Luther King Day. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/8 "2003-03-18T00:52:09Z")
Picture N’Sync in blackface singing _Old Folks at Home (Suwannee River)_. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/9 "2003-03-18T01:02:59Z")
Isn’t Norton himself at least putatively Irish? ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/10 "2003-03-18T01:37:21Z")
Since Westlife is Irish, doesn’t that make it self-mockery? Which is no big deal! ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/11 "2003-03-18T07:25:45Z")
Hmm, I thought the comparison with Little Black Sambo would make it reasonably clear. Norton and Westlife are Irish, yes, and if it were an Irish programme on Irish television it wouldn’t be such a big deal. But this is a _British_ television show. And the Irish in Britain are still very much a disadvantaged minority, and still subject to a substantial amount of prejudice (two recent media reports: the Irish are the only ethnic group who are worse off in Britain than in their home country; a British retail entrepreneur repeatedly slurred a reporter as “a fucking illiterate Irishman”). > [@](#): > > Picture N’Sync in blackface singing Old Folks at Home (Suwannee River). If N’Sync were black and giving this performance to white folk, that would be it in a nutshell. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/12 "2003-03-18T08:05:24Z")
The most recent Durutti Column album has a lovely cover of “The Fields of Athenry” on it. ---
**Author:** ![Reuben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@Reuben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reuben)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/13 "2003-03-18T08:37:34Z")
> [@](#): > > And the Irish in Britain are still very much a disadvantaged minority… Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. I don’t know where this campaign for victim status comes from, but it’s pretty ugly and entirely undeserved from where I’m sitting. I drink in an Irish pub and have a great many Irish friends here in London, all of whom would laugh at the notion they were ‘disadvantaged’. They’re all doing better than me, come to think of it. > [@](#): > > … a British retail entrepreneur repeatedly slurred a reporter as “a fucking illiterate Irishman” Quick! Get a rope and hang the intolerant racist bastard from the nearest lamppost! Fancy calling a man from Ireland an Irishman… ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/14 "2003-03-18T08:43:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*His guests were Westlife, an Irish boy band. He had them posed as little leprechauns, singing “The Fields of Athenry” (Ireland’s unofficial national anthem) in a Chipmunks style rendition. > > To American dopers this might not seem like such a big deal. But on a British television show, it’s not far off from Little Black Sambo. > > Graham, you’ve officially sold your soul. Now fuck off. \*\* Can’t stand Graham Norton, but ruadh calm down. This is no worse than the self referential pisstakes by scottish comedians of the whole Tartan, shortbread and bagpipes crap. If an irishman isn’t allowed to take the piss out of kitsch stereotypical imagery of Ireland, then who is? And how is it comparable to racist imagery? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/15 "2003-03-18T08:55:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > **two recent media reports: the Irish are the only ethnic group who are worse off in Britain than in their home country; a British retail entrepreneur repeatedly slurred a reporter as "a fucking illiterate Irishman"** Erm, two obvious points: 1. A cite would be nice. Comparable statistics would also be useful - if Ireland has a higher general standard of living than Britain, it’s likely that people who move across would on average be worse off. There’s a lot of ways such a statistic could be achieved without any form of ethnic prejudice. 2. I’m not sure how calling someone an Irishman is a slur. If someone were to call me a fucking illiterate Scotsman, it’s the first two words I’d take exception to. I really am curious as to how you perceive the Irish as a disadvantaged minority in Britain. Could you provide some examples or cites? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/16 "2003-03-18T09:12:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by asterion \* > \*\*Hey, I’d pay good money to see Pavarotti rapping. \*\* Not a chance; first you’d have to get him to shut up about the [elephants](http://www.rathergood.com/elephants/) ---
**Author:** ![Racer1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee59a6/32.png) [@Racer1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Racer1)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/17 "2003-03-18T10:16:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*Hmm, I thought the comparison with Little Black Sambo would make it reasonably clear. > > Norton and Westlife are Irish, yes, and if it were an Irish programme on Irish television it wouldn’t be such a big deal. But this is a _British_ television show. And the Irish in Britain are still very much a disadvantaged minority, and still subject to a substantial amount of prejudice (two recent media reports: the Irish are the only ethnic group who are worse off in Britain than in their home country; a British retail entrepreneur repeatedly slurred a reporter as “a fucking illiterate Irishman”). > > **snip** \*\* This is very silly, IMO. Firstly, there are roughly 60 million people in the UK, what gives one idiot the voice of the nation? I’m sure there are many people in Ireland who have said equally derogatory things about the British, and the insult is pretty tame anyway. It is only on a par with calling someone a “Fucking illiterate southerner” or “Fucking stupid Brit.” I’m both of those but would only be offended by the illiterate part. 😉 I am also surprised to hear the claim of the Irish being a disadvantaged minority in the UK. I’m pretty sure most of my Irish friends would disagree. They have the same standard of living as myself, and certainly haven’t been subjected to any prejudice that I have witnessed (doesn’t mean much, I know). I will ask them. As **Gary Kumquat** notes, it is easy to prove anything with statistics. Perhaps Ireland has a higher standard of living than many places other minority groups travel to the UK from? This would explain your media report without showing any particular prejudice against the Irish. I’m not going to go into the self-fun-poking argument, seeing as the performers were Irish, but it is hardly a new or particularly offending comedy area. I’m sorry, but you’re overreacting, in my opinion. I doubt the TV station will get many complaints. Not that I disagree with claims of Graham Norton’s general un-funniness, of course. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/18 "2003-03-18T10:18:07Z")
I saw it and have no problem with it whatsoever… well apart from the Westlife/Norton element of it 😉 ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/19 "2003-03-18T10:32:49Z")
Sorry but I just cannot agree about the bollocks about the Irish being disadvantaged in the UK. Sure there are many who are itninerant construction workers, but their lot is no worse than any other such workers. Irish are entitled to apply for any work that I am able to, except for that which demands British citizenship, like police, etc abd this is hardly any differant to any other country. Irish workers do not need Visas, they are entitled to full healthcare benefits and may qualify for other British benefits too. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145/20 "2003-03-18T10:43:00Z")
Probably not the best thing to promote harmony between our nations, and certainly likely to perpetuate a false stereotype, but since a) Norton’s Irish, and b) Westlife are Irish, and they weren’t (presumably) coerced into doing this, WAYGTD? There are more patronising things I’ve seen on TV during Paddy’s Day in the US, and these things are actually encouraged by Irish-Americans. As for it being the Fields of Athenry - well, at least they got a (kinda) rebel song onto British prime-time. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graham-norton-hit-a-new-low-tonight/162145.md?page=2)