# Grammar: A vs An? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 24, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757 "2015-01-24T15:18:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/61 "2015-01-26T13:44:32Z")
[Hawkeye Pierce]I want an harmonica![/Hawkeye Pierce] ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/62 "2015-01-26T14:00:59Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Well, there’s also another issue in that the proper noun ‘Mel Brooks’ could not require an apostrophe at all because it’s being used as an adjective. IOW the saying “I love Mel Brooks movies” being like saying “I love action movies” or “I love foreign movies”. Mel Brooks has both made enough films and with a very distinct style that using his name as an adjective is possible. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever heard or read the phrase, “I love Monty Python’s movies”, but always just “Monty Python movies”… Good point! One way of avoiding the issue completely is to transform the noun into an adjective. I do this all the time in my editing work. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/63 "2015-01-26T14:21:15Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Here in the UK (Would anyone say it as Uck?) we have a new political party called the United Kingdom Independence Party (they want us out of the EU). A year or so ago they tried to insist on U.K.I.P. as a set of initials like UCLA or NYC. Common usage dictated otherwise and they are now resigned to being universally known as Ukip. … Thanks. I’d been reading about them and wondered how the name was commonly pronounced. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/64 "2015-01-26T14:25:12Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This really doesn’t apply to modern American usage. There is no strong H/weak H phenomenon in American accents (or if there is, they’re extremely obscure accents). > > There’s no good reason for an American pol to say “an historic.” They picked it up somewhere because it sounded fancy or perhaps they read something by someone who really dos pronounce it “an 'istoric.” I take it you didn’t bother reading the entire quote let alone read the cite. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/65 "2015-01-26T17:33:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > […] > No American politician says “an 'istoric.” They’re just ignorant and pretentious. > […] So what else is new? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/66 "2015-01-26T17:40:14Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Mr. Bumble says that in Oliver Twist. But it has to be read in context. Mr. Bumble himself is a idiot, a ass. He’s not an educated man and doesn’t speak like one, except for his pretenses to loftiness. This is also where we get the slang verb “bumble”, as in a bumbling fool or bumbling idiot. If you bumble something up, you are failing in the manner of Mr. Bumble. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/67 "2015-01-26T22:43:56Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Not so sure of this. I think Brooks’s is right and Brooks’ is officially wrong (cite?) but commonly spoken that way because Brooks’s sounds awkward. Correct. Brooks in this context is NOT a plural noun; it’s a word that ends in s. Therefore, it’s Mr. Brooks’s car. Just like it’s Mr. Ross’s car. If the car belongs to Mr. and Mrs. Brooks, it’s the Brookses’ car. I do use Jesus’s as well, but I know that Jesus’ and Moses’ are accepted as exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/68 "2015-01-26T22:47:53Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > This is an old usage left over from the days when the h in words like history, hotel, hospital, etc was indeed silent. It’s still not uncommon in the UK for the upper classes to say _an 'otel_, for instance. Is that because they’re affecting a French accent, or is it really English Received Pronunciation? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/69 "2015-01-26T22:50:43Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > I take it you didn’t bother reading the entire quote let alone read the cite. I read it all. There’s an unnecessary weasel at the end. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/70 "2015-01-26T22:56:46Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Correct. Brooks in this context is NOT a plural noun; it’s a word that ends in s. Therefore, it’s Mr. Brooks’s car. Just like it’s Mr. Ross’s car. If the car belongs to Mr. and Mrs. Brooks, it’s the Brookses’ car. > > I do use Jesus’s as well, but I know that Jesus’ and Moses’ are accepted as exceptions. This will vary by style manual. Most of the modern guides I’m familiar with do what you say: add apostrophe-s to singular names ending in s. One notable exception, though, is Associated Press style, which calls for the bare apostrophe in singular names ending in ‘s.’ So, there’s no one “correct” answer here. It depends on the style guide you are following. Though I was taught AP style due to my background in journalism, I prefer the Chicago Manual of Style as a general style manual, so I use apostrophe-s myself. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/71 "2015-01-26T23:04:24Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Correct. Brooks in this context is NOT a plural noun; it’s a word that ends in s. Therefore, it’s Mr. Brooks’s car. Just like it’s Mr. Ross’s car. If the car belongs to Mr. and Mrs. Brooks, it’s the Brookses’ car. There was a spot on the BBC about this a few years back. The example used by the grammarian they interviewed was _ **The Diary of Samuel Pepys** _. His verdict: Both variants are prefectly acceptable, though convention in recent times has shifted to the simpler, more economical spelling. Strictly speaking, “brooks” is indeed a plural noun, or at least it can be treated as one even when it’s a person’s name. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/72 "2015-01-26T23:09:24Z")
Londoners drop aitches. It certainly isn’t pretentious to say “an 'istoric”. Even Dick Van Dyke knew that. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/73 "2015-01-26T23:14:28Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > There was a spot on the BBC about this a few years back. The example used by the grammarian they interviewed was _ **The Diary of Samuel Pepys** _. His verdict: Both variants are prefectly acceptable, though convention in recent times has shifted to the simpler, more economical spelling. That’s interesting. I would have guessed the convention went the other way. I remember learning the bare apostrophe when I was in grammar and high school, and more recently it seems to me that the apostrophe-s has become favored. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/74 "2015-01-26T23:38:07Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s interesting. I would have guessed the convention went the other way. I remember learning the bare apostrophe when I was in grammar and high school, and more recently it seems to me that the apostrophe-s has become favored. I’m 99.999% sure that’s what he said, as it confirmed what I already thought. The possessive “-'s” comes from dropping the “e” in the old English genitive ending “-es,” hence the apostrophe. The ending was the same in both the singular and the plural; in the latter case, the entire ending was dropped, rather than just the “e.” So you would end up with, e.g., “the girl’s books” (one girl) and “the girls’ books” (more than one girl). With irregular nouns, you now tack the “-'s” on to the end of the plural: “The children’s hour,” “the men’s room.” Easier to pronounce that way. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/75 "2015-01-26T23:49:40Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I’m 99.999% sure that’s what he said, as it confirmed what I already thought. The possessive “-'s” comes from dropping the “e” in the old English genitive ending “-es,” hence the apostrophe. The ending was the same in both the singular and the plural; in the latter case, the entire ending was dropped, rather than just the “e.” So you would end up with, e.g., “the girl’s books” (one girl) and “the girls’ books” (more than one girl). With irregular nouns, you now tack the “-'s” on to the end of the plural: “The children’s hour,” “the men’s room.” Easier to pronounce that way. Oh, then maybe I’m misunderstanding. I’m talking about in cases of proper singular nouns ending in “s.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/76 "2015-01-26T23:54:27Z")
Actually, there’s an interesting graph someone came up with [here](http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/2964/when-did-it-become-correct-to-add-an-s-to-a-singular-possessive-already-ending) regarding the apostrophe and apostrophe-s forms in American English for singular possessives for 14 names from 1810 onward. Looks like the peak popularity for bare apostrophe forms was about 1935-1955. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757/77 "2015-01-27T03:26:44Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Strictly speaking, “brooks” is indeed a plural noun, or at least it can be treated as one even when it’s a person’s name. But it’s irrelevant when deciding how to punctuate its possessive, and in fact would potentially lead to a mistake, since the possessive of many brooks is always brooks’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-a-vs-an/710757.md?page=3)