# grammar conventions that trip you up **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 24, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-conventions-that-trip-you-up/579580 "2011-04-24T19:04:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-conventions-that-trip-you-up/579580/21 "2011-04-25T19:36:12Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Who/Whom is easy if you just answer the question. If you answer him, use whom, if you answer he use who > > Who do you love? I love him. So one would use whom. Whom do you love? Cool! Thanks! John and I/John and me is easy for me to figure out if I’m writing or typing, but if I’m speaking I can’t really figure it out in real time. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-conventions-that-trip-you-up/579580/22 "2011-04-25T19:56:02Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Okay, well, one that sometimes makes me back up this. EX: > > _We need to make refunds to whoever overpaid the subscription fee._ > > OR.. > > \*_We need to make refunds to whomever overpaid the subscription fee._ > The first one is correct, but I’m tempted sometimes to say the second. Start thinking of it like this: _We need to make refunds to ((whoever overpaid) the subscription fee)._ The preposition “to” needs to have an object, right? Well, it’s not just the following word; it’s the entire following clause. It’s just unfortunate that the word “whoever” has to come next. But ultimately, the verb “overpaid” needs to have a subject. That’s the purpose for “whoever” in that sentence. It’s there to be a subject of a verb, not an object of a preposition. Compare it to “We drove to me/my house.” Which word is correct here? Clearly, it’s “my”. Why? Because the preposition “to” takes the whole clause as its object, not just the following word. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-conventions-that-trip-you-up/579580/23 "2011-04-25T19:59:41Z")
I can’t get punctuation and quotations correct. I don’t understand why Americans put the sentence-enders inside the quotes. Consider: _Is Yoda’s best quote “There is no try?” Is Yoda’s best quote “There is no try.”? Is Yoda’s best quote “There is no try”?_ I vote for the middle one, unless it’s not a full sentence. Then you style it as #3. And btw, I fully support the gratuitous use of the interrobang: _How can you not think that Yoda’s best quote is “There is no try.”?!_ ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-conventions-that-trip-you-up/579580/24 "2011-04-25T20:05:46Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > I hate me some homophones. They’re/There/Their Theirs a difference between you sing the wright won wrong, and knot no wing witch means what. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-conventions-that-trip-you-up/579580/25 "2011-04-25T20:48:11Z")
I’m generally pretty good with grammar rules (although my fiancee and I had an amusing grammar disagreement the other day\*), but I can’t get the lay/lie stuff right, ever. And even if I weren’t too lazy to think about it, I don’t actually know what’s correct when. If someone has a simple system for remembering that, I’d appreciate you passing it on! \*The argument was about whether the following sentence can be read so that the blank could be correctly filled by either “think” OR “thinks” (as opposed to only one being correct) depending on your interpretation of the modification at play: “[That suggestion is moronic] because there remains a small group of people who \_\_\_\_\_\_ that lying to authorities to resolve an inconvenience carries a certain loss of integrity.” ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-conventions-that-trip-you-up/579580/26 "2011-04-25T20:49:40Z")
I still can’t figure out how to end parenthetical statements with emoticons. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-conventions-that-trip-you-up/579580/27 "2011-04-26T15:40:00Z")
I notice nobody has mentioned _would of_ (would’ve) yet. ---
**Author:** ![surrounded\_by\_literalists](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@surrounded\_by\_literalists](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/surrounded_by_literalists)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-conventions-that-trip-you-up/579580/28 "2011-04-26T15:55:52Z")
[This](http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/24fxvw/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo) is so going to rock your already frustrated world. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-conventions-that-trip-you-up/579580/29 "2011-04-26T19:26:15Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > “None” being followed by a singular verb, since it’s short for “no one.” Try thinking of it as a mass noun. _I dropped the rice, but none’s on the floor._ _I thought you bought more milk…there’s none in the fridge._ _None of them is coming to my party. ☹_ ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-conventions-that-trip-you-up/579580/30 "2011-04-27T02:27:37Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Compare it to “We drove to me/my house.” Which word is correct here? Clearly, it’s “my”. Why? Because the preposition “to” takes the whole clause as its object, not just the following word. This is a great way to think about it. Thanks! > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > “None” being followed by a singular verb, since it’s short for “no one.” > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Try thinking of it as a mass noun. > > _I dropped the rice, but none’s on the floor._ > _I thought you bought more milk…there’s none in the fridge._ > _None of them is coming to my party. ☹_ [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/none) and a bunch of stuff I just [googled](http://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/SubjectVerb.html#none) say that it can take a singular or a plural verb depending on the object of the preposition. It can be though of as both “not one” and “not any.” [See rule 9](http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/subjectVerbAgree.asp). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-conventions-that-trip-you-up/579580.md?page=1)