# Grammar - fewer and less **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 28, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-fewer-and-less/231614 "2004-02-28T13:34:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![saint\_anthony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e99b99/32.png) [@saint\_anthony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saint_anthony)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-fewer-and-less/231614/1 "2004-02-28T13:34:15Z")
Having been taught the grammatical rule viz. the usage of ‘fewer’ and ‘less, and being aware that signs at checkouts in shops such as “five items or less” are technically incorrect, I want to ask the following question: First, should it be “£5 or less” or “£5 or fewer”? And, secondly, if the answer be ‘fewer’, is it correct then to say “half price or fewer”? Thank you, Saint Anthony. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-fewer-and-less/231614/2 "2004-02-28T14:05:59Z")
_Ora pro nobis, sancte antonie!_ The correct usage is that _fewer_ is proper when enumerable discrete objects are referenced, and _less_ when a measurement out of an unenumerable quantity is being discussed. One speaks of “fewer than twenty surviving Javan rhinoceroses” because one can go count the number of rhinos that survive in that game preserve. But one says “less than five pounds of sugar” because sugar does not come in neat one-pound quanta – one may have 4.995 pounds, three pounds, or 1.067 pounds and still be accurately speaking of the quantity. As you note, “Fewer than 12 items” would be accurate, but “less than $5.00” (forgive my converting to U.S. currency, but I don’t want to go looking for the pound-sterling sign) is correct because “money” is conceived of as akin to substance rather than discrete units of currency. Just as you may have a one-pound, five-pound, or ten-pound tin of coffee, you may have $1, $5, or $10 notes. And just as you may take a small scoop out of your coffee tin, you may break a dollar into petty change. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-fewer-and-less/231614/3 "2004-02-28T14:11:53Z")
FWIW, one of the local grocery chains (Farmer Jack) has signs that strike me as strange every time I see them: “12 items or fewer.” It’s strange to me because of its correctness; it seems out of place in a grocery store where the horrid “less” seems to be omnipresent. ---
**Author:** ![saint\_anthony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e99b99/32.png) [@saint\_anthony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saint_anthony)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-fewer-and-less/231614/4 "2004-02-28T14:12:05Z")
However, would it be “fewer than five of your American dollars?” ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-fewer-and-less/231614/5 "2004-02-28T14:13:06Z")
Unless I’m mistaken it is just the opposite of much/many. The coorect choice depends on whether the answer to a question requires qualification. How much gas do I need? Five gallons. How many apples did I buy? Twenty. How much gas do I need? Less than 5 gallons. How many apples did I buy? Fewer than 50. So if no descriptor or measure is required it’s many and fewer. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-fewer-and-less/231614/6 "2004-02-28T14:15:51Z")
> [@saint\_anthony](#): > > However, would it be “fewer than five of your American dollars?” Only if Leslie Charteris wrote it. But grammatically I think that is quite right, old chap. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-fewer-and-less/231614/7 "2004-02-28T15:17:14Z")
> [@don't ask](#): > > Only if Leslie Charteris wrote it. But grammatically I think that is quite right, old chap. Isn’t there a rule about quoting one Saint to another? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-fewer-and-less/231614/8 "2004-02-28T16:02:51Z")
The way I explained it to my children was that fewer and less had the same relationship as boogers and snot. If you can count them, they’re boogers, but if you have to weigh it, it’s snot. ---
**Author:** ![saint\_anthony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e99b99/32.png) [@saint\_anthony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saint_anthony)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-fewer-and-less/231614/9 "2004-02-28T16:45:01Z")
Yes but: How MANY dollars? Therefore, 5 or fewer? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-fewer-and-less/231614/10 "2004-02-28T17:56:59Z")
> [@saint\_anthony](#): > > Yes but: > > How MANY dollars? > > Therefore, 5 or fewer? According to Bryan Garner’s _A Dictionary of Modern American Usage_, which is one of the best of its type: > [@](#): > > The exception in using _fewer_ occurs when count nouns are so great as to render the idea of individual increments meaningless. So _less_ is used correctly with time and money–e.g.: “On that mantra, Larry Clark has built a $45 million-a-year company in _less_ than five years”…[or]…“Okay, how about $50 a month for such an apartment–_less_ than two dollars a day.” > > \ > > But if the units of time are countable as a whole, and not by fractions, then _fewer_ is called for \ \ > > \ > > Finally, even with the strict usage, it’s sometimes a close call whether a thing is a mass noun or a count noun, and hence whether _less_ or _fewer_ is proper. Take, for example, a percentage: should it be _less than 10% of the homeowners were there_ or _fewer than 10% of the homeowners were there_? One could argue that a percentage is something counted (i.e., 10 out of 100), and thus requires _fewer_. One could also argue that a percentage is a collective mass noun (akin, e.g., to money), and thus requires _less_. The latter is the better argument, because most percentages aren’t whole numbers anyway. And even if it were a toss-up between the two theories, it’s sound to choose _less_, which is less formal in tone than _fewer_. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-fewer-and-less/231614/11 "2004-02-28T18:19:15Z")
> [@saint\_anthony](#): > > First, should it be “£5 or less” or “£5 or fewer”? £5 or less. > [@](#): > > And, secondly, if the answer be ‘fewer’, is it correct then to say “half price or fewer”? Half price or less. In cases where the ‘correct’ term is a close call, you may be doing yourself a favour by using an alternative construction if it is just as clear or clearer. Sometimes, it’s best to just say ‘not more than five pounds’ and be done with it. These quotes look weird with only the top and left borders. Or am I doing something wrong?