# Grammar mistakes that (heaven forbid) you make sometimes despite efforts not to..

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444>\
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion\
**Created:** [December 16, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444 "2013-12-16T05:18:52Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\
**Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/21 "2013-12-17T03:46:16Z")

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> [@LawMonkey](#):
>
> ETA: Incidentally, if you wanted to be pedantic, as I apparently do now, the error in the first isn’t so much the ending preposition as it is the incorrect case of the pronoun. “Whom are you speaking to?” is, as I understand it, perfectly correct.

Well, Dryden, the originator of the rule would complain because you have separated the preposition from its object. But he’s been dead for some time now and not likely to throw a fit about it.

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**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\
**Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/22 "2013-12-17T03:53:50Z")

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> [@MandaJo](#):
>
> I will reread something and see that I’ve strung 4-5 independent clauses together with an unholy mix of colons and semi-colons.

I don’t use them multiple times in a sentence, but I do have to watch out for them; semicolons and colons show up way too often in my own writing. I’ll often write something in a professional context and discover that I’ve written three or four sentences in a row that have a semicolon; while that’s not a terrible problem, it suggests I ought to be varying my sentence pattern a bit.

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**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\
**Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/23 "2013-12-17T03:55:08Z")

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Passive voice always got the teacher on my case. It’s how I talk and write. \<shrug\> That argument didn’t work very well with my teachers. 😉

Good grammar is work for me. I force myself to do it at my job. A paycheck does wonders for my motivation. Otherwise I write like I talk.

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**Author:** ![scootergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e99b99/32.png) [@scootergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scootergirl)\
**Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/24 "2013-12-17T04:20:29Z")

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Up until a year ago, I used the words **annoying** and **aggravating** incorrectly. I used aggravating instead of annoying regularly until my boyfriend corrected me. Some may find that annoying, but not me. English is my second language and I love it when somebody sets me straight.

I now understand how to use them correctly:

My neighbors’ music was so annoying and loud; it aggravated my headache.

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**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\
**Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/25 "2013-12-17T05:41:13Z")

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> [@AuntiePam](#):
>
> I use wishy-washy qualifiers like “probably”, “really”, “pretty” and “maybe”.

> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Passive voice always got the teacher on my case. It’s how I talk and write. \<shrug\> That argument didn’t work very well with my teachers. 😉

Teachers and other know-alls can be tunnel-vision-afflicted and mindlessly dictatorial. “A is always good; B is always bad” – IMO that’s too narrow and simplistic. Different styles suit different people, and can be more or less appropriate according to circumstance. AuntiePam, I’m addicted to “wishy-washy qualifiers” too: I consider that at times, there’s a place for them. One doesn’t want to sound arrogant and self-dogmatic all of the time.

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**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\
**Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/26 "2013-12-17T05:55:51Z")

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> [@elbows](#):
>
> Too many commas.

I’ve noticed that too.

For me, I’m addicted to the semicolon. I use it in wholly appropriate instances, instances where it technically is correct but could probably be better left out and in instances where it is flat out incorrect to use.

But I’m getting better!

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**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\
**Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/27 "2013-12-17T07:54:31Z")

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> [@Palo\_Verde](#):
>
> I have worked as an English grammar teacher and I have a Master’s Degree in Linguistics. And I can still never use ‘lay’ and ‘lie’ correctly!

This one. I’ve even had a few super Grammar kids here on the Dope give me neat little tricks to remember, and I still can’t. I’m going to have to write it down and carry it in my purse!

And I sometimes typo it’s and its, even though I know the difference.

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**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\
**Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/28 "2013-12-17T10:02:15Z")

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I always remember the difference between \*lie \*(intransitive) and \*lay \*(transitive) because in the Old English grammar they’re derived from, _lie_ is the base verb and \*lay \*is the causative form derived from it by the infixed vowel -_a_-. Same process as in _rise_ and _raise_.

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**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\
**Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/29 "2013-12-17T17:37:51Z")

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> [@elbows](#):
>
> Too many commas

Yep, I’m guilty of this, as well as a few others in this thread. I should know better, too.

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**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\
**Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/30 "2013-12-17T21:03:20Z")

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> [@Ambivalid](#):
>
> For me, I’m addicted to the semicolon. I use it in wholly appropriate instances, instances where it technically is correct but could probably be better left out and in instances where it is flat out incorrect to use.
> 
> But I’m getting better!

It would seem that if this is a vice, you’re not the only person beset by it. Lynne Truss in her work on punctuation _East, Shoots & Leaves_, quotes the British writer Hilary Mantel, thus: “I have always been addicted to something or other, usually something there’s no support group for. Semicolons, for instance, I can never give up for more than two hundred words at a time.” And Truss mentions the reputed last dying words of a – frustratingly unidentified – famous 20th-century author as, “I should have used fewer semicolons”.

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**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/31 "2013-12-18T21:15:37Z")

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Sentence fragments.

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**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/32 "2013-12-18T21:21:35Z")

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Good device. Will be used more later.

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**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/33 "2013-12-18T21:23:59Z")

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> [@panache45](#):
>
> The OP’s first two examples aren’t as “carved in stone” as they once were. But the third? Why would you treat it as anything other than a simple declarative sentence. Perhaps another example would clarify.

When I do it, it’s because I’ve come to a conclusion on my own but I want others to check me and I am not saying it as a definitive answer.

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**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/34 "2013-12-18T21:37:01Z")

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I wonder if the sky could have been any bluer? I don’t know. Are you wondering or not? “Wonder” does not make the sentence a question.

John was shot in the garage. It’s between the heart and liver.

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**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/35 "2013-12-18T21:42:12Z")

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I confess…I end sentences with prepositions.

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**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/36 "2013-12-18T22:15:45Z")

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> [@JWT\_Kottekoe](#):
>
> IMHO it is OK to intentionally split infinitives.

Even the persnickety William Safire has no problems with split infinitives in general. I’m surprised this superstition is still going strong. Sure, there are cases where it might be better not to split an infinitive, but there’s no blanket “rule” that it’s wrong.

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**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/37 "2013-12-18T22:41:35Z")

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My approach to grammar is to understand the rules to the best of my ability, and apply when appropriate. The key here is the phrase “when appropriate”. Much like music, once you understand the rules - then you can create jazz.

When writing and speaking in a professional setting I generally follow the rules upright and uptight.

When writing online I try to mimic casual speech, and try to inject punctuation to simulate speech patterns. I also try to deliberately break some rules for interesting effect and to suggest vernacular.

When speaking casually, I try to have fun.

It is curious to me that there are those among the posters here who would both notice and scold themselves over a grammatical misstep.

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**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/38 "2013-12-18T23:09:43Z")

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> [@Kenm](#):
>
> John was shot in the garage. It’s between the heart and liver.

At four years old, my grandma passed away.

Before starting Medication X, your doctor should test you for TB.

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**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/39 "2013-12-18T23:41:11Z")

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The rules against split infinitives and prepositions at the end of sentences are based on Latin grammar, not English. There is no reason to avoid either one.

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**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-mistakes-that-heaven-forbid-you-make-sometimes-despite-efforts-not-to/676444/40 "2013-12-19T00:01:16Z")

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> [@dnooman](#):
>
> That almost infuriated me when I first saw it. That’s a DECLARATIVE statement, not a question!

Yikes! I’m feeling guilty if I were the one who almost infuriated you. I do that online sometimes to indicate that it is said with that kind of rising tone that indicates a suggestion to ponder or that I’m not sure.

My mom was a sixth grade teacher who spoke flawless English. And for years I could also. The difference between us is that she could explain all the rules for why she used words the way she did. And in spite (\<-----see that?) of me having a BS in English my emphasis was on literature.

Grammar is just too left-brained for me to handle and now that’s she’s gone she’s not here to remind me. I spend so much time on the computer that my spelling has gone to heck.

But I can get pretty bent out of shape by “I and my girlfriend.” Nearly all of the Millennials I know make this mistake so I’m starting to think they’re all self-centered.

My rationalization is that first you have to be able to do it correctly, that is do it right in high school and college. Then later you can spice it up and personalize it.

Since I’m there already I can afford to change the standards. 😃

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